Aries Cerat Kassandra II Ref DAC: Wow!
- Thread starter morricab
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Dhts in the lampi are implemented in preamp not poweramp mode with an autobalancing circuit. Not standard at all. Now with active triode loading and other innovations...we await the final outcomes. Based on what Seatrope (GG2) and Steve (PAC) told me...both have protoptypes with most of the features...it will be worth the wait. The PAC especially will be newsworthy at 90lbs deluvered, I am told. Big iron like the Kass.
Anyway, its a Kass thread and want discussions to return there. It is a primo product that deserves serious chatter.
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Surely. Unfortunately technical discussions on some of these DACs are taboo - the information on topology and technical characteristics is minimal, only generic considerations with superlatives. But I agree the technical aspects are mostly to please our curiosity - most times they have little correlation with sound quality!
Hello gents
I hate dogmas. I avoid them like plague. Idht vs dht. It is another vinyl vs digital.,even worse..what type of dht vs what type of idht. Also what filament material? Tungsten filaments are as much different to oxide filaments as idht to dht.
Some points for discussion.
What type of idht vs what dht?
For what purpose? Output stage? Preamp input? Driver? Phone input?
Loaded with what? Resistor, transformer, active load, choke?
Driving what? The grid of a transmitter tube? Preamp input? A small signal tube grid?
What is driving the DUt? A step down trans? A cap? An iv resistor?
All these factors overlap and have vastly, grossly stronger effect to the sonic outcome. You can never compare two tube stages just feom the fact of dh or idh.
Couple of examples. Dht tube A outperformed every oxide dht tube for driver purpose. Highly capacitive grid load. Interstage coupled. It just killed any tube thrown at it. Exotic unobtainables not excluding. Idh were pretty out if the legue for that purpose. Put the same dht type A in a dac stage. Fed by a iv transf. Was great but not the greatest. Same idh that whooped the mentioned dht at the dac output,waa miles away to the same dht when tried to drive 200v on a different load.
This is not new. Every specific circuit will have a specific tube that will shine under these parameters.
I hate dogmas. I avoid them like plague. Idht vs dht. It is another vinyl vs digital.,even worse..what type of dht vs what type of idht. Also what filament material? Tungsten filaments are as much different to oxide filaments as idht to dht.
Some points for discussion.
What type of idht vs what dht?
For what purpose? Output stage? Preamp input? Driver? Phone input?
Loaded with what? Resistor, transformer, active load, choke?
Driving what? The grid of a transmitter tube? Preamp input? A small signal tube grid?
What is driving the DUt? A step down trans? A cap? An iv resistor?
All these factors overlap and have vastly, grossly stronger effect to the sonic outcome. You can never compare two tube stages just feom the fact of dh or idh.
Couple of examples. Dht tube A outperformed every oxide dht tube for driver purpose. Highly capacitive grid load. Interstage coupled. It just killed any tube thrown at it. Exotic unobtainables not excluding. Idh were pretty out if the legue for that purpose. Put the same dht type A in a dac stage. Fed by a iv transf. Was great but not the greatest. Same idh that whooped the mentioned dht at the dac output,waa miles away to the same dht when tried to drive 200v on a different load.
This is not new. Every specific circuit will have a specific tube that will shine under these parameters.
Now, I have had some time recently to do some serious listening at more likelike levels with some of my favorite recordings and the result is simply stunning. Tonality is very natural in, full but not overly rich, resolution allows you to hear all the way in but but with a density of images and tone that I didn't think was possible to combine with such high resolution. I have nearly universally heard either (eg. Lampizator) or (eg. DCS) but never both together before. The foundation is the most solid I have ever heard from a tube DAC and competitive with the best SS DACs in terms of weight and punch/slam. Dynamics are simply explosive. I was listening the other day to Tchaikovsky pieces on Decca and a couple times I was literally startled by the sudden macro dynamic shift in the music.
So, all the advantages I heard when listening at low levels is compounded when listening at more realistic levels...one would expect so but I have found that it is far from guaranteed. I haven't fired up my turntable in nearly 2 months! Before this I was listening to about 75% vinyl...at the moment zero. I will go back of course, my TT is crying out to be played and I frankly have much more music on vinyl that I still enjoy than cd. No, I do not have a music server...yet.
Even my vinyl rig doesn't have this grounded tonal density coupled to ultra high resolution. It does though have the dynamics and the ability to startle along with the ability to dig out the smallest bits of information...that along with a great tonal balance was what kept my analog rig comfortably ahead of all the digital I had heard...until now.
So, is it better than vinyl? All I can say at this point it is on par with vinyl but still somehow a bit different. It is the first time that I can say it is an equally valid reproduction even though they both do it slightly differently. If anything the digital is more solid, more palpable than the vinyl but the vinyl still has a smidgen more finesse and microdynamic flow. But maybe my memory is off...I will go back to analog and find out in the coming weeks.
So, all the advantages I heard when listening at low levels is compounded when listening at more realistic levels...one would expect so but I have found that it is far from guaranteed. I haven't fired up my turntable in nearly 2 months! Before this I was listening to about 75% vinyl...at the moment zero. I will go back of course, my TT is crying out to be played and I frankly have much more music on vinyl that I still enjoy than cd. No, I do not have a music server...yet.
Even my vinyl rig doesn't have this grounded tonal density coupled to ultra high resolution. It does though have the dynamics and the ability to startle along with the ability to dig out the smallest bits of information...that along with a great tonal balance was what kept my analog rig comfortably ahead of all the digital I had heard...until now.
So, is it better than vinyl? All I can say at this point it is on par with vinyl but still somehow a bit different. It is the first time that I can say it is an equally valid reproduction even though they both do it slightly differently. If anything the digital is more solid, more palpable than the vinyl but the vinyl still has a smidgen more finesse and microdynamic flow. But maybe my memory is off...I will go back to analog and find out in the coming weeks.
Oh ok, so you had ample opportunity to correct yourself
Are you insinuating that digital betters vinyl???
Hi Morricab, For a digital component last formally updated almost 9 years ago, I have to say that nothing tempted me until perhaps the latest DCS Vivaldi to even think a change might be worth considering (that said, i wont be doing it). I also have kept in touch with about a dozen fellow owners, and all but one still use their Zanden 4-box digital today. A few have acquired other digital (come and gone), but there is something about the Zanden that inspires them to keep it.
The Zanden benefits from tube upgrades, and a lot of isolation for each of the 4 units, as well as EMI/RFI shielding which makes the signal much stronger and purer, including its bass which can otherwise be a bit gentle. (I play a lot of deep house as well as most other genres of music.) But in the end, it satisfies, and truly does allow most of those who've spent time with it to really forget about formats and cables, and just enjoy the music.
Someday, I would like to hear the Kassandra digital, having read so much about it from you and elsewhere.
Brad,
You heard a Golden Atlantic and possibly a GG with one set of tubes and all this BEFORE you got the Aries. We all know that the GG is different with tube changes, and Bonzo heard exactly the opposite when he did a head to head.
So, while I dont claim your opinion is invalid, please leave enough wiggle room to ensure that the reader understands that its not an open and shut case...far from it.
I am yet to hear the Aries and expect it will be great given Stavros's passion and skills. I am also yet to hear the GG2 or Pacific, and likewise I will make a projection that it will be like a "great lep forward". Things are good in digital land!
You heard a Golden Atlantic and possibly a GG with one set of tubes and all this BEFORE you got the Aries. We all know that the GG is different with tube changes, and Bonzo heard exactly the opposite when he did a head to head.
So, while I dont claim your opinion is invalid, please leave enough wiggle room to ensure that the reader understands that its not an open and shut case...far from it.
I am yet to hear the Aries and expect it will be great given Stavros's passion and skills. I am also yet to hear the GG2 or Pacific, and likewise I will make a projection that it will be like a "great lep forward". Things are good in digital land!
First, you seem to mistake me for someone who doesn't like the sound of Lampizator DACs...maybe you thought I was a DCS owner by mistake??
GA and GG are both good DACs, no doubt about it. However, IMO, it is an open and shut case at least from what I have heard so far from GA (which is not likely to change since there is no tube rolling involved) in MY system. I gave an opinion based on currect experience and I don't expect anyone to take it as gospel. I will reserve final judgement on the GG but, if you want to bring over a GG with 242 tubes and we have a proper, level matched shootout, then I am always up for that kind of fun.
I compare both the GA and Kassandra to my vinyl reference. For the GA, vinyl was clearly still superior overall, especially in dynamics. For the Kassandra the lines are totally blurred as Kassandra has dynamics out the wazoo along with the tonality and refinement.
I heard the GA and Kassandra in my own system...something you have not done and by your own admission you haven't even heard the Kassandra at all, let alone in your own system. I know the sound of my system VERY well so I know what happens when new components are inserted. This is very different from dropping two different DACs into an unfamiliar system. Also, considering you haven't heard Kassandra, I think it is you who needs to leave the wiggle room rather than relying on Bonzo's opinion. Besides it was not nearly as clear cut for Bonzo as you lead on (reread the blog...with the first tubes he thought Kassandra was better at least in some ways).
Hopefully, you will come to the show and see our room.
Fair enough you preferred the GA, I asked you on the other thread, was this Patryk's GA, and were the compares done next to each other?
And yes, Kassandra was better than GG with special 45s, though the GG was just superbly better with the 242s. In fact, the best GG I have heard is with the Analog Domain electronics and the Aries Cerat pre.
And yes, Kassandra was better than GG with special 45s, though the GG was just superbly better with the 242s. In fact, the best GG I have heard is with the Analog Domain electronics and the Aries Cerat pre.
I compared them independently against my vinyl system.
Again, you compared them both in unfamiliar settings, which is inferior, IMO, to have a well sorted system that you know well the strengths and weaknesses. Never forget that Kassandra has not been my long term reference, it was either my Monarchy DAC or my vinyl.
Wow, you compared them independently, and I compared together in same system set up for Aries, and mine is invalidated lol. And don't remember you saying you did it independently till pointedly asked.
You compared them in someone else's system...and that someone else didn't agree with you. I compared them in my own, stable, well defined system that I used for reviewing and thousands of hours of listening. I compared them against my reference, vinyl.
Stop the nonsense. i was never a dealer and you live in CH so you know that this is non-viable wth the cost of living here. You KNOW I work in Pharma like Audiophile Bill and indeed spent the entire afternoon in the Swiss Biotech conference in Eysins. I, like many people got a demo unit Dac to listen to as a favour and returned the favour by sending it to interested people to listen to. The Dac is not my property and goes back to Lukasz or gets sold locally. I have ZERO financial interest and indeed pay a penalty as my wife complains about the clutter of storing it! On the other hand, you went for countless weeks here touting the Aries brand without disclosing your dealer status.
I never said you didnt like the Lampi, I said dont say its a slam dunk without mentioning that you never did a head to head and that you only know the lower Atlantic line.
I dont have anything to hide and I am very vocal about the stuff I like, like Job amps, iFi products, Heil speakers, Swisscables, Lumenwhite TT, Stenheim speakers, Dartzeel amps and Danalog Dac, CH M1 amp, Illusonic IAP processor, Goldmund active speakers and a few others I KNOW well.
Finally, I am open about not hearing the Aries, but have chatted with Believe Hifi and Stavros online enough to understand the design principles and the passion involved. I know it HAS to be a great set of products and indicated before that I would like to make it to Regensdorf this year to hear in person.
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