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Thread: First Sounds: Grand Prix Audio Monaco 2.0

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I'm fascinated by the idea of greater and greater speed accuracy and stability. Does anyone know how speed accurate and stable the original cutting lathes were? It seems this new GPA table may be more accurate. I now wonder if the LP was cut at a less accurate rate and if this is now or may one day be audible. It this a real or imagined concern?
    I don't have an answer to your question about lathe accuracy, but know that it is genuine and active concern, along with concentricity (off-center holes) whose problems can be audible. As reproduction technology improves, some folks regard the biggest impediment facing vinyl today is the physical record itself. The last of the highly regarded VMS-70 and VMS-80 series Neumann lathes were made in the mid-1970s. A lot of techology has come down the pike since then, just like that used by GPA, which could be applied toward building a 'modern' lathe. Going farther out, I've read of the concept of creating a 3D model of a record in software that allows precise adjustment of groove placement, width and depth. I can imagine a record manufactured using such a model as the instructions into the same technology used by 3D object printers today. Such as VPI is using to make tonearms. That might mean no more lathes.

    But let's suppose the average lathe used in the record making process is less accurate speed-wise than the 'table used to play the record created with it. The sonic improvements offered by the hyper accurate and stable 'table are still very audible - or so my ears tell me. I do want to learn if other listeners hear something similar or different. Are there new thresholds to be crossed in speed accuracy and stability? I kinda doubt it, but remain happy knowing there are folks out there trying to improve la vida vinyl.
    See my Mahler thread here.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tima View Post
    The sonic improvements offered by the hyper accurate and stable 'table are still very audible - or so my ears tell me. I do want to learn if other listeners hear something similar or different. Are there new thresholds to be crossed in speed accuracy and stability? I kinda doubt it, but remain happy knowing there are folks out there trying to improve la vida vinyl.
    Dear Sir,

    Yesterday I had such OOh, Ahh, Wow, foottaping, face grinning listening experience from my system using Kronos. This morning I started my day listening again only wondering what all the sudden went wrong with my system. The sound was no where near yesterday. The music was disoriented, less dynamic, less impact, less transparent, not involving and just not it. It took me a while to realize that the speed of my Kronos was fluctuating b/w 33.1-33.4. So I turned it off and restarted. When it was on again with the speed peg to 33.3, my system got back to where it was and really started singing wonderfully again. An hour later, lifeless music started again. Yes, the Kronos speed went nervous again. The point is speed is so crucial to get top sound. What happened to me this morning makes me think of your thread describing the sonic excellence of the Monaco 2.0.

    Kind regards,
    Tang

  3. #23
    Senior Member theophile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tango View Post
    Dear Sir,

    Yesterday I had such OOh, Ahh, Wow, foottaping, face grinning listening experience from my system using Kronos. This morning I started my day listening again only wondering what all the sudden went wrong with my system. The sound was no where near yesterday. The music was disoriented, less dynamic, less impact, less transparent, not involving and just not it. It took me a while to realize that the speed of my Kronos was fluctuating b/w 33.1-33.4. So I turned it off and restarted. When it was on again with the speed peg to 33.3, my system got back to where it was and really started singing wonderfully again. An hour later, lifeless music started again. Yes, the Kronos speed went nervous again. The point is speed is so crucial to get top sound. What happened to me this morning makes me think of your thread describing the sonic excellence of the Monaco 2.0.

    Kind regards,
    Tang
    The irony of this observation is that Kronos means 'Time'.
    Turntable/Arm - Yamaha GT 2000/Yamaha YSA-1
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    Turntable support counts as another component. 21 Clearaudio Magix and more.

  4. #24
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    So, I'm a little unsure about something here.
    The old GP1.5 in effect only eased speed twds stability once or twice a record side, and now the 2.0 might only have to do this once.
    And this is what results in a dramatic impvt in SQ btwn the two?
    Nothing else in terms of materials use or mechanical application?
    Just going from a few adjustments on speed per side to a single adjustment on average?
    I'm just not seeing where the major upstick is coming from.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiritofmusic View Post
    So, I'm a little unsure about something here.
    The old GP1.5 in effect only eased speed twds stability once or twice a record side, and now the 2.0 might only have to do this once.
    And this is what results in a dramatic impvt in SQ btwn the two?
    Nothing else in terms of materials use or mechanical application?
    Just going from a few adjustments on speed per side to a single adjustment on average?
    I'm just not seeing where the major upstick is coming from.
    Not sure where this came from: "The old GP1.5 in effect only eased speed twds stability once or twice a record side, and now the 2.0 might only have to do this once." Do you have a reference?

    I don't think I can 'see' the difference but I certainly heard it. That sonic improvements come from increased accuracy and a lower noise floor, with emphasis on the former, is a deduction based on the measured physical improvements made in the v2.0 and listening to the the 1.5 and 2.0.. Once you've heard the 'table for a while and become familiar with its construction and operation, and differences between the two models, I'd be very interested to learn your own conclusions about the cause or reason for the sonic differences beyond increased accuracy and lower noise.

    For now, I have no further explanation nor apparently does the team that designed and built the 2.0. Once it was determnined how to increase accuracy and stability and how to implement that design, no one knew what results would come. It was an experiment. The team figured there would be improvements, but, so I'm told, they were very surprised at the end results. I had no knowledge about any of that until after I published. Alvin Lloyd was steadfast in not offering suggestions about what to expect from listening. I've written elsewhere that while ultimately it makes no sense, listening validates the numbers. I believe the explanations cited for the improvements.

    You ask: "Nothing else in terms of materials use or mechanical application?" The v2 does have a new drive system. Try the link in the first post of this thread to read about differences between the 1.5 and 2.0.

    Thanks for the inquiry. I appreciate your scepticism.
    See my Mahler thread here.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tango View Post
    Dear Sir,

    Yesterday I had such OOh, Ahh, Wow, foottaping, face grinning listening experience from my system using Kronos. This morning I started my day listening again only wondering what all the sudden went wrong with my system. The sound was no where near yesterday. The music was disoriented, less dynamic, less impact, less transparent, not involving and just not it. It took me a while to realize that the speed of my Kronos was fluctuating b/w 33.1-33.4. So I turned it off and restarted. When it was on again with the speed peg to 33.3, my system got back to where it was and really started singing wonderfully again. An hour later, lifeless music started again. Yes, the Kronos speed went nervous again. The point is speed is so crucial to get top sound. What happened to me this morning makes me think of your thread describing the sonic excellence of the Monaco 2.0.

    Kind regards,
    Tang
    I agree Tang. Thanks for your note!
    See my Mahler thread here.

  7. #27
    Addicted to Best! awsmone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tango View Post
    Dear Sir,

    Yesterday I had such OOh, Ahh, Wow, foottaping, face grinning listening experience from my system using Kronos. This morning I started my day listening again only wondering what all the sudden went wrong with my system. The sound was no where near yesterday. The music was disoriented, less dynamic, less impact, less transparent, not involving and just not it. It took me a while to realize that the speed of my Kronos was fluctuating b/w 33.1-33.4. So I turned it off and restarted. When it was on again with the speed peg to 33.3, my system got back to where it was and really started singing wonderfully again. An hour later, lifeless music started again. Yes, the Kronos speed went nervous again. The point is speed is so crucial to get top sound. What happened to me this morning makes me think of your thread describing the sonic excellence of the Monaco 2.0.

    Kind regards,
    Tang
    what will really do your head in ...the lower platter doesn't even have speed stability
    "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky"

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  8. #28
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    Awsmone, don't get me wrong.
    I've heard the 1.5 a few times and absolutely love it.
    For my part, I've moved away from belt (to rim drive, maybe next to idler drive), and I won't readily return.
    Maybe I misunderstood one of the reviews, but the impression I got re the 1.5 was that there was only sporadic correction of speed going on (w the speed control being so good to begin with), and the 2.0 corrects even less often - did I misread the review where it said the 2.0 might only physically correct once or twice per lp side?
    Re the changes in materials and engineering btwn the 1.5 and 2.0, yes, I'm sure there is a lot.
    I have read somewhere the 2.0 has much greater torque than the 1.5 (fully up to speed in less than two revolutions), and I suspect this may be adding as much as anything to a more hypnotic sound - for my part, I really do feel this is where belt drive gets left behind (the Kuzma Stabi M and XL being honourable exceptions).

  9. #29
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    your right in that 1.5 is a lower torque design

    i not sure the 2.0 is more torque?

    i have high torque DD such as sp 10 and Sony Psx9 ( which is also very quiet)

    i owned a thorens 124/schoppers for a long time and under the appeal.....
    "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky"

    [/B]
    [I]Monaco tt 1.5 triplanar/Xv1
    Bakoon two box phono; step up Cinemag, Altec, FR, RCA
    Halcro DM 8 running current mode
    Bespoke server Roon and HQplayer at dsd2
    Atomic clock to USB aes interface
    Meitner DA2
    Lamm m1.2 or Goldmund 29M
    Morel Fat Ladies
    Bespoke active crossover 5 Subwoofers
    Sony PSX9 XL55 Bakoon phono
    Pioneer PLL1 DV XV1s Esoteric E03/CO2 as output
    Stealth cabling

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiritofmusic View Post
    Awsmone, don't get me wrong.
    I've heard the 1.5 a few times and absolutely love it.
    For my part, I've moved away from belt (to rim drive, maybe next to idler drive), and I won't readily return.
    Maybe I misunderstood one of the reviews, but the impression I got re the 1.5 was that there was only sporadic correction of speed going on (w the speed control being so good to begin with), and the 2.0 corrects even less often - did I misread the review where it said the 2.0 might only physically correct once or twice per lp side?
    Re the changes in materials and engineering btwn the 1.5 and 2.0, yes, I'm sure there is a lot.
    I have read somewhere the 2.0 has much greater torque than the 1.5 (fully up to speed in less than two revolutions), and I suspect this may be adding as much as anything to a more hypnotic sound - for my part, I really do feel this is where belt drive gets left behind (the Kuzma Stabi M and XL being honourable exceptions).
    You can go listen to the Stabi M at Hastings, playing with a 1500 quid Transfig cart, and Airtight ATE-2005 phono, and and compare it to the Select 2, MSB transport and power supply. That should answer your queries of analog vs Select 2.
    Audition recordings: Zero Distortion Link; Reference Components: Zero Distortion Link; Own: Lampi GG One-day-to-get: Apogee Scintilla, or a horn (with Tenor 75 OTL ), Preamp to be fit in to suit the gain and drive the power amp. Analog: TBD

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