Digital direction? aurender and dcs Vivaldi or add sgm server to Emm labs DA2

awsmone · Jun 29, 2017

Since getting rid of my Accuphase 900/901 I have been transportless other than oppo occasionally

I use a bespoke server

I am thinking of going all out wity the server as I like the adaptability of computer audio

My thoughts are to either add a SGM server/ Pink faun to my DA2 which I have enjoyed totally

Or

Change to a Aurender w20 and dcs Vivaldi

Appreciate thoughts and experience

When not listening to vinyl I appreciate the server HQ player experience wondering whether aurender would be better with dcs or just optimise server with SGM

THX

A

bonzo75 · Jun 29, 2017

I have compared Rossini to Emm DA2. Emm was better, and the dealer told me if I preferred the Emm to Rossini, I would prefer it to Vivaldi too. He did say the performance of dCS shot up after adding the upsampler, and he preferred it to the EMM when the upsampler was added, but I was not able to verify that.

Both DA2 and Rossini were heard next to Feickert Firebird, and a couple of other TTs, and they just did not match up

Separately I compared the GG to the Vivaldi and the GG was way superior in all aspects relating to tone, soundstage, especially during tuttis pulling ahead showing the flutes, clarinets, and other instruments in their own space with the tones much better differentiated and in 3d.

Adding W20 to SGM would benefit any of the dacs. If you are looking from a cost perspective, adding it to DA2 would give superior results than moving to Vivaldi. The only benefit of going with Vivaldi will be if you add in the external clock to the W20, then it will be Vivaldi+Clock+Aurender which might give superior benefits to having a server into DA2. There is a guy on this forum named Custodian, you might want to PM him since he is not active, he is using a W20 with his Vivaldi so that he can add an external clock.

microstrip · Jun 29, 2017

No one should expect a Vivaldi to operate miracles when inserted in a system. You will have to tune the system to get its unique characteristics - mastertape string tone, power, real drama, 3D space and deep and tuned bass. You will be able to feel the typical tension and emotion at the end of a performance in a very large, well defined soundstage. The 3D layering capabilities exceed anything I have listened to, particularly when driving the power amplifiers directly.

IMHO no words can tell anyone how good a properly set Vivaldi can sound. I have listened to great and miserable DCS demos. Whether it pleases your own preferences is a different matter. And yes, in order to enjoy it your system should have an excellent bass performance - it complements very well the balance of the XLF's.

I have been playing with it for the last few months. It is a diabolic creature - once you introduce it in your system you will experience aspects and capabilities of stereo you were not aware, it will clearly show you the best aspects of tube, solid state or cables, but also the limitations of each relative to others . And once you experience them you will not want to abdicate of any of them ...

awsmone · Jun 29, 2017

Thanks guys this is great feedback
Exactly what I was after

My thoughts intially are the SGM will to the the DA2

However the W20 with VIVALDI might be better is

1. you consider adding a clock
2. The pain of getting the Vivaldi to work as it can... not wanting to dis this product but appreciate it's not a simple product to optimise

awsmone · Jun 29, 2017

microstrip said:
No one should expect a Vivaldi to operate miracles when inserted in a system. You will have to tune the system to get its unique characteristics - mastertape string tone, power, real drama, 3D space and deep and tuned bass. You will be able to feel the typical tension and emotion at the end of a performance in a very large, well defined soundstage. The 3D layering capabilities exceed anything I have listened to, particularly when driving the power amplifiers directly.

I have been playing with it for the last few months. It is a diabolic creature - once you introduce it in your system you will experience aspects and capabilities of stereo you were not aware, it will clearly show you the best aspects of tube, solid state or cables, but also the limitations of each relative to others . And once you experience them you will not want to abdicate of any of them ...

Hi interested in your feedback ....as my system is active...I appreciate your dilemma as I have perceived the same problem

As you optimise and dial in high frequency response your also need to adjust bass response to keep pace

If you don't get it right both high frequency sound stage and detail are effective

Is more of an issue with digital than analogue which rarely has this level of hf response

pjwd · Jun 29, 2017

awsmone said:
Thanks guys this is great feedback
Exactly what I was after

My thoughts intially are the SGM will to the the DA2

However the W20 with VIVALDI might be better is

1. you consider adding a clock
2. The pain of getting the Vivaldi to work as it can... not wanting to dis this product but appreciate it's not a simple product to optimise

awsmone - I think you should get the SGM so I can duck down and have a listen

Cheers,
Phil

awsmone · Jun 29, 2017

Ha ha

Anytime your welcome
I am in Brisbane in late august

Stereophonic · Jun 29, 2017

awsmone said:
Since getting rid of my Accuphase 900/901 I have been transportless other than oppo occasionally

I use a bespoke server

I am thinking of going all out wity the server as I like the adaptability of computer audio

My thoughts are to either add a SGM server/ Pink faun to my DA2 which I have enjoyed totally

Or

Change to a Aurender w20 and dcs Vivaldi

Appreciate thoughts and experience

When not listening to vinyl I appreciate the server HQ player experience wondering whether aurender would be better with dcs or just optimise server with SGM

THX

A

I would incorporate the Wadax Atlantis Server. You can view my experience on:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?23204-New-Wadax-Atlantis-Line
I bought one and i'm in heaven.
I was between Aurender and SGM too. Great players anyway. You can't go wrong with anyone.

Regards.

microstrip · Jun 29, 2017

Stereophonic said:
I would incorporate the Wadax Atlantis Server. You can view my experience on:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?23204-New-Wadax-Atlantis-Line
I bought one and i'm in heaven.
I was between Aurender and SGM too. Great players anyway. You can't go wrong with anyone.

Regards.

Where can we read about the technical details of the Wadax server? The Wadax site information is minimal.

jfrech · Jun 29, 2017

Since we both own GP Monaco tables. I will say the dCS Vivaldi is the first thing I've owned that causes the turntable to get a bit dusty. I use to listen to vinyl 80% of the time. Digital was for background. The dCS Vivaldi will change this for you-likely flip it to 80% digital. I'll also agree the clock is important. However so is the upsampler-especially if you're using a server with varying resolutions feeding the dac.

The dCS isn't to hard to set up. Going with their recommendation on the filters is just fine. You'll experiment with these over time...but it's not hard and easy to hear. But small changes....that to me seem to be heard over time vs quickly going back and forth. Also on dCS Vivaldi, like most digital, power and vibration are important. Along with good digital cables....

One last thing....a bit of a left field recommendation, you might like a Grand Prix Audio Silverstone shelf. I know you're turntable will love it...but it will significantly advance the rest of your system as well. Especially your existing digital...just a thought.

Stereophonic · Jun 29, 2017

Hi microstrip.

I'll try to ask for them.
It is the most sophisticated server i know. All the concept is new. From power design to output one.
I think it will be very difficult to Wadax to explain shortly the technical details.

bonzo75 · Jun 29, 2017

Actually, in my email in one place I confused clock with upsampler, so corrected

Mike Lavigne · Jun 29, 2017

if you are thinking of the Vivaldi + upsampler + clock, then the new MSB Reference should also be on your similar price range (a little less depending) radar. it goes down the road the Select II is on, just not as far. it's also modular, so has future-proof advantages that help.

I heard it at the L.A. Show in the same room I heard the Select II and was impressed. it's special. and it should mate with the SGM similarly to how the SGM works with the Select II for me. the pic below is from the L.A. Show with the 2 box Reference on top playing, with the 3 box Select 'off' down below.

Sa683s · Jun 29, 2017

For the price you pay, w20 + Vivaldi, I would rather buy Vivaldi + upSampler + NAS ( I use mini mac) or add clock for a bit more. Once u try, u won't regret , I'm so happy w 3 pieces at the moment.... transport soon. For ultimate u still need the transport, for simple, I use roon + tidal + Spotify now.

PeterA · Jun 29, 2017

bonzo75 said:
...Both DA2 and Rossini were heard next to Feickert Firebird, and a couple of other TTs, and they just did not match up...

Ked, could you clarify what you mean by 'they"? Do you mean the that the two DACS did not match up, or that the turntables did not match up?

bonzo75 · Jun 29, 2017

PeterA said:
Ked, could you clarify what you mean by 'they"? Do you mean the that the two DACS did not match up, or that the turntables did not match up?

Lol. The dacs did not.

pjwd · Jun 29, 2017

awsmone said:
Ha ha

Anytime your welcome
I am in Brisbane in late august

Cool - PM me times and your contact info and if it works we can have some play time - keen to hear how the current mode works with the halcro

Phil

awsmone · Jul 13, 2017

jfrech said:
Since we both own GP Monaco tables. I will say the dCS Vivaldi is the first thing I've owned that causes the turntable to get a bit dusty. I use to listen to vinyl 80% of the time. Digital was for background. The dCS Vivaldi will change this for you-likely flip it to 80% digital. I'll also agree the clock is important. However so is the upsampler-especially if you're using a server with varying resolutions feeding the dac.

The dCS isn't to hard to set up. Going with their recommendation on the filters is just fine. You'll experiment with these over time...but it's not hard and easy to hear. But small changes....that to me seem to be heard over time vs quickly going back and forth. Also on dCS Vivaldi, like most digital, power and vibration are important. Along with good digital cables....

One last thing....a bit of a left field recommendation, you might like a Grand Prix Audio Silverstone shelf. I know you're turntable will love it...but it will significantly advance the rest of your system as well. Especially your existing digital...just a thought.

Thanks JEFF for the tip, I will look into it both Vivaldi and Monaco shelf

You are correct about vibration and dacs, the oxco clocks are sensitive to vibration

Alrainbow · Jul 23, 2017

I think mike nails it. The Msb sel2 and an aurender the N20 with USB gives you all anyone can want in options
I heard the setup woth my music on two speaker setups
The new Msb sel 2 is a real top end dac. The aurender is only needed for tidal and other internet sourced music.
The network interface gives you nas storage as a source so no need for any server in this way. The aurender gives you every thing else. Also your vinyl rig can play through an analog input on hr Msb sel 2.

Digital direction? aurender and dcs Vivaldi or add sgm server to Emm labs DA2

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