Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Peerless 831812 replacement

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Pinecrest, FL
    Posts
    17

    Smile Peerless 831812 replacement

    I am looking for affordable 12" drivers to replace the Peerless 831812 used in the Gradient SW-63 dipole subwoofers. The alternative replacement - 831857 and 830500 - are no longer available, they are discontinued. Make is unimportant.

  2. #2
    WBF Technical Expert (Speaker & Acoustics) [Technical Expert] Mark Seaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    296
    Quick searches aren't pulling up any data on the original woofer. Any chance you were able to find a data sheet you could share?

    Without seeing behind the cloth, I'm not exactly certain if it's just a simple dipole with sides on it or anything different. Could you share pictures with the grill off when you pull the woofer?

    With a little more info I'm sure we could find some reasonable woofers for replacement if your main goal is to get back up and running. If you want one of the best dipole woofers currently out there, I would head over to Acoustic Elegance (www.aespeakers.com) where you can find their Dipole 12 woofer and choose a dual 8 Ohm coil for a net 4 Ohm impedance, or dual 16 Ohm coil for a net 8 Ohm impedance depending on your amplification. These will be much lower distortion and have parameters much better suited for a dipole subwoofer. In fact you will not need as much correction from the external crossover box as you did with the original. These and related woofers are being used in many very high performance dipole products on the market and are some of the lowest distortion and higher excursion options intended for dipole use.
    Mark Seaton

    Seaton Sound, Inc.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Pinecrest, FL
    Posts
    17

    Smile

    Hi Mark,

    Thank you for your prompt reply. The Peerless 831812 has been discontinued for a long time and the suggested replacements are the 831857 and 830500, they are out of production too. I checked my Peerless catalogs and found data for the 831857 only, please see attachment. The subs have H-frame enclosures, these subs need a 6dB/octave boost because they are dipoles. Acoustic Elegance is a speaker company that has taken over Nick Mcinney's design after his death, the fantastic Lambda 8Ω SB12. But AE speakers' close equivalent, the Dipole 12-D8's price is outside my range at $339 a piece. [fs is high]

    Cheers,

    Horacio
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  4. #4
    WBF Technical Expert (Speaker & Acoustics) [Technical Expert] Mark Seaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    296
    Quote Originally Posted by F456GTM View Post
    Hi Mark,

    Thank you for your prompt reply. The Peerless 831812 has been discontinued for a long time and the suggested replacements are the 831857 and 830500, they are out of production too. I checked my Peerless catalogs and found data for the 831857 only, please see attachment. The subs have H-frame enclosures, these subs need a 6dB/octave boost because they are dipoles. Acoustic Elegance is a speaker company that has taken over Nick Mcinney's design after his death, the fantastic Lambda 8Ω SB12. But AE speakers' close equivalent, the Dipole 12-D8's price is outside my range at $339 a piece. [fs is high]

    Cheers,

    Horacio
    Hi Horacio,

    I knew Nick and have known the owner of Acoustic Elegance for almost 20 years now, and am one of the highest volume customers/users of their custom drivers. The drivers made now are significantly more advanced and higher in build quality to the concepts that Nick brought to market years ago. While the massive top plate on the underhung driver, full copper sleeve, and many custom assembled parts push it past the budget driver realm, the low distortion and dynamic linearity is far superior to the Peerless alternates. In the H frame design you would actually find the Dipole 12 to have much better extension requiring less overall correction than the Peerless drivers. The Fs is insignificantly higher vs the greatly increased sensitivity due to the better matched Q for the H-Frame, which requires less severe correction for flat response.

    John of Acoustic Elegance still offers an SB12, but a better match for the open baffle use would be the IB12AU. This gives you the full copper sleeve and the same maximum travel as the Dipole 12, while the Q of 0.51 and Fs of 24Hz is functionally extremely close to the Peerless woofers and will be dramatically better performers for $220 less for the pair.

    Next up would be a suggestion that would require more power but offer more maximum output in the Dayton Ultimax 12. The Fs is a little higher, but the associated higher Q will make up for it. You could also use the Dayton Reference HF 12, but the only reason to choose it over the Ulitmax is for the $60 savings on the pair as it still has a bit too much motor strength for dipole use and will require more gain/boost from the crossover box.

    If you're using them with Quad's, I'd e-mail John Janowitz of AE speakers and go for the IB12AU or something similarly suited for the use that John can whip up.
    Mark Seaton

    Seaton Sound, Inc.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Pinecrest, FL
    Posts
    17
    Hi Mark,

    According to AE, the IB series woofers are designed specifically for automotive infinite baffle applications.

    Nevertheless, I should have posted the crossover specifications first in order to produce a spreadsheet with parameters that match MT Audio Design's recommendations? The XO-2001 is far superior to the original Gradient crossover. Unfortunately, the Swedish company is no longer in business.

    http://user.tninet.se/~hme893k/mt_au...ts/xo_2001.htm

    May I suggest to check the 2001 specs?

    I have a very simple two channel system - Klyne 6LP3X/Linn LP12/Ittok LVIII/Denon DL-103R/Meridian 507 and Revox A77 15ips. I want to run the subs with either my superb Electrocompaniet Ampliwire 100 DMB [125W/Ch] or a pair of recently upgraded and bridged QUADs 405-2 [180W].

    Kind regards,

    Horacio

  6. #6
    WBF Technical Expert (Speaker & Acoustics) [Technical Expert] Mark Seaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    296
    Quote Originally Posted by F456GTM View Post
    Hi Mark,

    According to AE, the IB series woofers are designed specifically for automotive infinite baffle applications.

    Nevertheless, I should have posted the crossover specifications first in order to produce a spreadsheet with parameters that match MT Audio Design's recommendations? The XO-2001 is far superior to the original Gradient crossover. Unfortunately, the Swedish company is no longer in business.

    http://user.tninet.se/~hme893k/mt_au...ts/xo_2001.htm

    May I suggest to check the 2001 specs?

    I have a very simple two channel system - Klyne 6LP3X/Linn LP12/Ittok LVIII/Denon DL-103R/Meridian 507 and Revox A77 15ips. I want to run the subs with either my superb Electrocompaniet Ampliwire 100 DMB [125W/Ch] or a pair of recently upgraded and bridged QUADs 405-2 [180W].

    Kind regards,

    Horacio
    Hi Horacio,

    There is no specific difference between the automotive versions and the other versions beyond offering lower impedance and smaller driver diameters using the IB motors, and not adding the extra mass to keep the Q higher in the home IB versions. These combinations simply have parameters that will work well for many of the sound quality guys in the car world who just want to know which driver they can use. The Peerless drivers you are searching for are most certainly NOT designed for dipole use. Ultimately all that matters is having the correct parameters, low distortion, and good linearity. In an open baffle, the driver Qts and Fs defines the driver behavior, which is then combined with the cancellation/roll off of the baffle. There is no specific interaction other than straight addition. This means any driver with the same Fs and Qts will have the same low frequency response curve (assuming it doesn't have huge inductance). A higher motor strength (lower Q) driver like an SBP12 would give you LESS bass in your dipole while having slightly less Xmax vs this version.

    By my quick guesstimates, the filter you linked and the IB12AU would make for a +/-3dB extension of the low-mid 20s before any boundary reinforcement from the room with the dipole correction filter and the 12Hz low cut filter.

    John Janowitz has worked with many IB woofer designs. I suspect he would direct you to the same options I did, where the IB12AU will offer a nice savings in a next best option over the more expensive Dipole 12. You could also use the IB12HT driver, but this is basically a heavier IB12AU and unless you are using 4-8 of the drivers in your room, the lower Fs and higher Q would be wasted. Again, any of these are better suited for dipole use than the Peerless replacements you are looking for.
    Mark Seaton

    Seaton Sound, Inc.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Pinecrest, FL
    Posts
    17
    Thanks Mark, I already contacted Mr. Janowitz,

    Cheers,

    Horacio

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Pinecrest, FL
    Posts
    17
    Hi Mark,

    John kindly simulated a large open baffle that gave me an idea of what I may have in the H baffle design. He says that the Dipole12-D16 would be the best possible option. The plans that I have for the cabinets are an exact copy of the Gradient SW-63 enclosures but I am not sure if they would be a good match for the 12D-16s, it would be great if they can fit that design.

    Attached are the plans for the cabinets.

    Best regards,

    Horacio
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  9. #9
    WBF Technical Expert (Speaker & Acoustics) [Technical Expert] Mark Seaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    296
    Quote Originally Posted by F456GTM View Post
    Hi Mark,

    John kindly simulated a large open baffle that gave me an idea of what I may have in the H baffle design. He says that the Dipole12-D16 would be the best possible option. The plans that I have for the cabinets are an exact copy of the Gradient SW-63 enclosures but I am not sure if they would be a good match for the 12D-16s, it would be great if they can fit that design.

    Attached are the plans for the cabinets.

    Best regards,

    Horacio
    Hi Horacio,

    When we first started discussing, I forgot that these subwoofers had the pair of 12" woofers each. The plans give John what is needed to model up the woofers, where the H-Baffle is relatively straight forward to model. John recommended the D16 version so you can connect all voice coils in parallel for a 4 Ohm nominal load per subwoofer. The parameters and frequency response between the D8 or D16 versions will be the same; it's just a matter of matching load to your amplifier in this case. If for some reason you wanted an 8 Ohm load, the D8 version could be wired with the dual VC in series and the woofers in parallel.

    The budget option of the IB series would then give you options of the IB12AU-8 or IB12HT-8. The AU version will be more efficient in the upper bass, where the HT version will be less efficient in the upper bass but have more low frequency extension. The HT is essentially a heavier version of the AU, as you can see the Re and BL of each version is nearly identical.
    Mark Seaton

    Seaton Sound, Inc.

Similar Threads

  1. The new Magico M6, M Pro replacement
    By ack in forum Magico Speaker Forum
    Replies: 76
    Last Post: 12-10-2017, 09:48 AM
  2. JRiver Kickstarter to become WMC replacement!!!!
    By prerich in forum Computer Software and Hardware Technology Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-11-2015, 08:02 AM
  3. Replacement Tweeter?
    By Mark B. Fowler in forum Genesis Advanced Technologies Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-13-2014, 09:16 AM
  4. Replacement for the Aerial 5B coming.
    By class a in forum Speaker, Subwoofer And Headphone Audio Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-17-2014, 08:40 AM
  5. Pictures of the Job 225 for fuse replacement ....
    By joeinid in forum Power Amplifiers and Preamplifiers Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-22-2013, 10:21 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •