A $42,000 transport.

Al M. · Jun 23, 2017

rockitman said:
Certainly a motivator to switch to a server based system.

Not quite. I have a $ 1,800 transport and am extremely happy with its performance. No server in my house any time soon (read: probably never).

From a review of my transport at:
http://www.tonepublications.com/review/simaudio-moon-neo-260d-cd-transportdac/

As Simaudio’s Lionel Goodfield is quick to point out, the Neo 260D “is first and foremost a transport; the drive mechanism and suspension are virtually identical to those in the 650D and 750D.” Like its more expensive stable mates, the Neo 260D is built in-house and not supplied by an external manufacturer. And while I enjoy the DAC part of the equation, I concentrate during my review on using it solely as a transport, pairing it with a wide range of DACs—from the inexpensive Meridian Explorer all the way up to the $109,000 dCS Vivaldi stack.

[...] Those with a great DAC already installed in their system and wanting to either replace an aging (or dead) transport will be amazed by the Neo 260D’s sound quality. Fifteen years ago a transport this good would have a $10,000 price tag attached; This MOON does it for just $3,000 *). Now that’s progress.

______________

*) that's with DAC, I have the transport-only version without, at just $ 2K.

BMCG · Jun 23, 2017

dCS will increase UK list prices by 10% from 1 July... indeed the weakness in Cable is filtering through... ( inflation )...

When time permits I will return to evaluating both the Vivaldi upsampler and transport as sources but as of today ... in my system... a well fettered PC and USB pipeline serves ... bliss

YMMV

XV-1 · Jun 24, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
with Brexit are UK goods 'list prices' in UK pounds relevant for other markets? isn't that all over the board right now.

I'm not suggesting that $42k for a list price for a Transport is not obscene, but only that I've seen other UK audio products appear to be great buys with the politics lately.

normally high end manufacturers are careful to not allow price differences to get too large from currency fluctuations. maybe Brexit gives them cover to sell for less in the UK temporarily.

Yes, I think it is. Its gives you an indication of what the sell price is of a unit in its home country. The imported price will always be a bit higher due to shipping etc, but some of the mark ups by distributors are an insult. A classic example if the distributor of Accuphase - almost 300% higher than the Japanese prices.

These high digital prices is almost making analog seem reasonable

bonzo75 · Jun 24, 2017

A lot of that 42k is to pay for the real estate costs of the UK office

jfrech · Jun 24, 2017

KeithR said:
you are avoiding the obvious question - dcs is using an Esoteric transport with no output stage here. what do they do that is worth 42k?

Open up the case. It's jam packed with electronics doing something. Worth it? I think so. I bought one. It's clearly incredible to listen to and better than any other digital source I've tried (USB with various software and Synology NAS with either Roon or Minim Server). Ethernet sounds pretty good...so skipping the transport and going all files is definitely a cost benefit. Ultimately I prefer the transport. Both for Redbook and SACD. I prefer a redbook cd over a 24/96 24/192 download. You can hear the better resolution, but seems to loose the musicality and enjoyment. Of course this is dependent on the mastering of the files. I have some killer good downloads. That said my NAS drive has been off for about 8 weeks...

caesar · Jun 24, 2017

Browsing the news this morning, saw a headline that Prada is selling a $185 (not $1.85!) paperclip at Barney's. Social media is going ape shti! http://miami.cbslocal.com/2017/06/23/prada-barneys-paperclip-185-dollars-expensive/

Still curious to know if expensive transports are an "old luxury" vs. a "new luxury", with old luxuries like a Rolls Royce 50 years ago only signifying upper class status, while sitting broken in a garage 6 months out of the year. And new luxury being a BMW or Porsche signifying status but also performing better than a honda or toyota.

Does dCS have a position on the quality of sound of a ripped file coming from their network bridge vs. from their transport? I am assuming that since they market themselves as the premier engineered digital, justifying their price premium over most of the competition, this answer should be really easy to get.

Anyone other than Jfrech compare a file playing on a NAS vs. playing the disk on their transport?

ack · Jun 24, 2017

jfrech said:
Open up the case. It's jam packed with electronics doing something. Worth it? I think so. I bought one. It's clearly incredible to listen to and better than any other digital source I've tried (USB with various software and Synology NAS with either Roon or Minim Server). Ethernet sounds pretty good...so skipping the transport and going all files is definitely a cost benefit. Ultimately I prefer the transport. Both for Redbook and SACD. I prefer a redbook cd over a 24/96 24/192 download. You can hear the better resolution, but seems to loose the musicality and enjoyment. Of course this is dependent on the mastering of the files. I have some killer good downloads. That said my NAS drive has been off for about 8 weeks...

Well done John, I had no doubt your transport is killer. The fundamental problem with Ethernet and similar is how they transmit data, and though there is no clock info transmitted, audio data is sent asynchronously in so-called ethernet frames, which may or may not be delivered in order - that's the job of higher level protocols like TCP to add additional sequence ids, plus retransmit in case ethernet frames are lost (there is a wait timeout, and if no packet acknowledgement is received, TCP retransmits the same data). Therefore, buffering is inevitable, hence potentially additional clocking, as are waits, packet verification (checksums) and unpacking (extraction of the payload, aka audio data, from the encompassing frames and packets), etc. By contrast, a slaved transport has clear benefits here. I have no doubt your transport can outclass any server.

jep123 · Jun 24, 2017

In my system there is no doubt; Red book CD sounds better through the transport than ripped files of the same CD played through the Aurender N10. The Aurender is a great piece of equipment, but my CH D1 CD drive is better sounding. Please be aware of that I use the CH link between the C1 and D1 and that contributes in a positive way, I think. I use USB from the Aurender to the CH C1.

SACD sounds even better, I am happy that I bought the transport. I like the physical media as well.

JP

ack · Jun 24, 2017

jep123 said:
In my system there is no doubt; Red book CD sounds better through the transport than ripped files of the same CD played through the Aurender N10. The Aurender is a great piece of equipment, but my CH D1 CD drive is better sounding. Please be aware of that I use the CH link between the C1 and D1 and that contributes in a positive way, I think. I use USB from the Aurender to the CH C1.

SACD sounds even better, I am happy that I bought the transport. I like the physical media as well.

JP

The Aurender W20 is one of the servers I tried, and no contest, the transport outclasses it

jtinn · Jun 24, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
with Brexit are UK goods 'list prices' in UK pounds relevant for other markets? isn't that all over the board right now.

I'm not suggesting that $42k for a list price for a Transport is not obscene, but only that I've seen other UK audio products appear to be great buys with the politics lately.

normally high end manufacturers are careful to not allow price differences to get too large from currency fluctuations. maybe Brexit gives them cover to sell for less in the UK temporarily.

I would rather have an SGM server at a fraction of the price than a $42,000 transport. There really is no good justification for that price.

Mike Lavigne · Jun 24, 2017

caesar said:
Browsing the news this morning, saw a headline that Prada is selling a $185 (not $1.85!) paperclip at Barney's. Social media is going ape shti! http://miami.cbslocal.com/2017/06/23/prada-barneys-paperclip-185-dollars-expensive/

Still curious to know if expensive transports are an "old luxury" vs. a "new luxury", with old luxuries like a Rolls Royce 50 years ago only signifying upper class status, while sitting broken in a garage 6 months out of the year. And new luxury being a BMW or Porsche signifying status but also performing better than a honda or toyota.

Does dCS have a position on the quality of sound of a ripped file coming from their network bridge vs. from their transport? I am assuming that since they market themselves as the premier engineered digital, justifying their price premium over most of the competition, this answer should be really easy to get.

Anyone other than Jfrech compare a file playing on a NAS vs. playing the disk on their transport?

I posted this yesterday on this thread. while it's not the $42k transport, it is a newly designed $8k very good sounding CD transport using the i2S interface with the synergy of the same brand Formula dac and sitting on a Herzan TS-150. to me what was interesting was how the software advancement pushed the SGM clearly past the discs.

I had the Aqua La Diva transport with my Aqua Formula dac and it sounded great. to begin with it was neck and neck with the SGM on redbook files, once I placed it on top of the Formula which was sitting on the Herzan TS-150. although the SGM was not on a Herzan. then I got some upgrades to the HQ Player and Roon and the SGM moved clearly ahead of the discs. now we have the Select II and all that entails.

caesar · Jun 24, 2017

Hi JTinn,

As one of the premier entrepreneurs in this industry, leaving the $42K price tag aside, what sonic differences do you detect between digital playing off a NAS vs. being fed by a transport? Thanks

caesar · Jun 24, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
I posted this yesterday on this thread. while it's not the $42k transport, it is a newly designed $8k very good sounding CD transport using the i2S interface with the synergy of the same brand Formula dac and sitting on a Herzan TS-150. to me what was interesting was how the software advancement pushed the SGM clearly past the discs.

Thanks, Mike - sorry I missed it.

PeterA · Jun 24, 2017

Belt v. Direct Drive, Solid State v. Tubes, Transport v. Server. This thread is becoming interesting. Perhaps the transport/server discussion deserves its own thread. I would be very curious to learn what dCS thinks about the advantages and disadvantages of these technologies. Have any of the Vivaldi owners discussed this with their dealers? Does it just come down to whether the user has a collection of physical CDs or a file database? Is it about whether one wants to tap a glass iPad screen or insert of disk into a drawer?

I am curious to read more about how proponents of each actually describe the differences they hear. The debates about belt/DD and SS/tube seem more about actual subjective listening impressions specific sonic descriptors being used to describe differences.

microstrip · Jun 24, 2017

XV-1 said:
(...) These high digital prices is almost making analog seem reasonable

Economics law of high-end:

The equipment WE buy is surely reasonably priced, the equipment OTHERS buy is probably not reasonably priced, independently of being analog or digital.

PeterA · Jun 24, 2017

microstrip said:
Economics law of high-end:

The equipment WE buy is surely reasonably priced, the equipment OTHERS buy is probably not reasonably priced, independently of being analog or digital.

That is too funny. Perhaps someone should start a poll thread comparing the total members have spent on vinyl versus digital front ends. One could through in analog tape and include the cost of tapes. Then there are the usual or differing opinions about which format is superior at various price points, $5K, $20K, $50K $100+K.

Mike Lavigne · Jun 24, 2017

PeterA said:
That is too funny. Perhaps someone should start a poll thread comparing the total members have spent on vinyl versus digital front ends. One could through in analog tape and include the cost of tapes. Then there are the usual or differing opinions about which format is superior at various price points, $5K, $20K, $50K $100+K.

no.

let's not.

spiritofmusic · Jun 24, 2017

Please, not a thread about spending LOL!
I got a cold chill working out my expenditure in the last two decades
Probably evenly split on analog v digital, any excess towards vinyl with my cartridge spending
I'm not sure if cd v files is sufficiently "sexy" to get pulses racing on a discussion
I certainly remain a physical media guy and always will do

microstrip · Jun 24, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
no.

let's not.

I think this smiley is more appropriate!

microstrip · Jun 24, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
(...) I certainly remain a physical media guy and always will do

I still am physical media guy, but can not be sure that I will always be. I have learned since long we should never say always (or never BTW) concerning high-end.

If these conditions are fulfilled I could consider changing:

1. Equal sound quality from both types of media.
2. Effortless ripping of physical media (CD and SACD).
3. Decent liner notes equivalent to paper ones of all recordings.
4. Certifiable knowledge of technical details, processing and origin of files.
5. Clear legal ownership of files.

IMHO no one of them is completely true - surely YMMV, as they say.

A $42,000 transport.

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