A $42,000 transport.

spiritofmusic · Jun 26, 2017

For me, the decision to go streaming, and a top streaming option on day one, is based on whether I confidently predict I'll have a few hundred albums that I love I would not readily or at all have found via the old model of reviews and buying discs, and whether I get a more rounded classical music education
Indeed, whether I break out of my time honoured ritual of painstakingly playing my c.2500 lps and cds in steady sequence, and out of my linear approach to music
If I do, it'll have been worth the effort of breaking self imposed audio chains
If it doesn't, and I indeed don't find much new I adore, or could easily have gotten on disc, then not so much

PeterA · Jun 26, 2017

KeithR said:
Do you use an iPhone or are you still on flip phones too?

I mean really, its 2017. Swiping and tapping is part of everyday life at this point for 99% of the public.

Keith, I appreciate that you view me as in the 1%. I've always aspired to that and never understood what all those protests were about.

I do use an iPhone because I need mobile communications for work and the camera comes in handy when I need to document evidence. I miss my old flip phone with single functionality. The iPhone is great for checking forums and reading snide comments from people. Judging others is so not 2017.

PeterA · Jun 26, 2017

KeithR said:
Not to mention getting suspension right in the SME TT itself. Although this thread has now gone off the tracks

You mean the needle has skipped out of the groove, don't you?

spiritofmusic · Jun 26, 2017

Peter, I hate to say it, but judging people is "SO" 2017 esp online
I'm not saying KeithR guilty of that, but being in this 1% by nature attracts incredulity
If Keith realised there are Japanese fighter pilots from WW2 stuck in the wilderness who have better computer skills than me, he'd be horrified LOL
For me, every endeavour, and esp the individual interests in audio, is prone to extreme pros and cons
For my part, I would like to get past my natural reticence to have to interact with a tablet, if the end result is more musical enjoyment than I could get the tried and tested way
So for me, the convenience thing is not relevant, it's whether in 5 years my musical listening has mutated in areas it wouldn't readily do right now
My instinct is it will, and thus is worth the major punt from me
But I very much am with you on the essential "coldness" of the interaction of tablet>playback, versus zipping thru one's physical discs library
For my part however, I feel compelled to look past this

bonzo75 · Jun 26, 2017

MadFloyd said:
No doubt about it, the simplest source is a CD spinner. The only variables are power and digital cables.

You should try the Furutech CD destat and some of the CD mats. And as for digital cables, isn't 70% of the cost and time of the vivaldi stack experimenting with the best cable combination, as opposed to the best filter combination of HQP?

KeithR · Jun 26, 2017

PeterA said:
I do use an iPhone because I need mobile communications for work and the camera comes in handy when I need to document evidence. I miss my old flip phone with single functionality. The iPhone is great for checking forums and reading snide comments from people. Judging others is so not 2017.

Peter, you come on a digital thread as someone who doesn't have a digital system and then proclaim how confusing using an iPad is for music - let's just say you are the outlier. I'm sorry if you feel that is snide.

It would be like me coming on a TT thread you started and complaining about setting up a cartridge.

Mike Lavigne · Jun 26, 2017

bonzo75 said:
You should try the Furutech CD destat and some of the CD mats. And as for digital cables, isn't 70% of the cost and time of the vivaldi stack experimenting with the best cable combination, as opposed to the best filter combination of HQP?

not to be ignored is decoupling/resonance control for any spinner.

I found that the Herzan changed things a bunch when evaluating the Aqua La Diva. it allowed it to be head and head with the SGM into the Aqua Formula until further software advances moved the SGM farther ahead.

I would 'guess' that active vibration would have more performance significance than cables. it dramatically effects image focus, delicacy, bass articulation, ambient retrieval and ease.

PeterA · Jun 26, 2017

853guy said:
And, in a parallel universe that looks a lot like this one...

"No need to resist the tide. It doesn't affect me. On the contrary, I am just getting more and more amused when I hear about matching carts with phono stages and trying out different loadings and VTA settings.

Or when I read on the thread that's it's only after the second or third clean of the record that gets you to the promised land of vinyl...

All the drama etc...

Good that many vinyl guys seem to have a "live and let live" attitude. But then, you also have the analogue fundamentalists..."

Be well, Al.

853guy

853guy, I've never known your posts to be poorly reasoned. You do know that Al M. is a digital-only guy, don't you? Nor has he expressed those kinds of sentiments about vinyl. Your parallel universe analogy does not really make sense in this case.

I can't speak for other vinyl guys, but I try not to encourage others to adopt vinyl into their systems so that analog can coexist peacefully in their systems with digital, regardless of transport or file/server delivery method, so that they can avail themselves of more music. In that sense, I have a "live and let live" attitude. People can and should do whatever they want regarding music and how to listen to it.

Now it would be interesting to get this thread back on topic and discuss the sonic differences between the various digital delivery methods. Do people hear differences in sound quality, and if so, how would they describe these differences?

spiritofmusic · Jun 26, 2017

Guys, we know cables, isolation etc improves digital
The issue for the "1%" like me and Peter is getting past the reticence and perceived cold lack of intuitiveness of library via IPad, and whether evolution in finding music differently to before via streaming outweighs reasons not to take part
For me, convenience is not a big deal, but finding new music is, and that will drive my decision to get involved and trump my reluctance to engage w an IPad
For those where ones library is fully covered by RBCD and SACD, there must be less reason
Maybe that applies to Peter and Al
It does a quite a bit to me
So, this is the tipping point for me
Would SGM purchase today get me enjoying the world of classical, and 1000 must listen albums of new music in a decade, that I really would scratch the surface off searching and buying 12" and 5" discs?

KeithR · Jun 26, 2017

back on track- has anyone compared the $42k transport in question with others - say MSB, Meridian, Esoteric, etc. I think that would get to the heart of the matter.

Al M. · Jun 26, 2017

PeterA said:
853guy, I've never known your posts to be poorly reasoned. You do know that Al M. is a digital-only guy, don't you? Nor has he expressed those kinds of sentiments about vinyl. Your parallel universe analogy does not really make sense in this case.

True, but I still found it funny. I took it for the light-hearted response that I thought it was meant to be.

spiritofmusic · Jun 26, 2017

Don't forget Wadax and JMF uber transports
They can't keep up w the demand from AE crowd in Asia

bonzo75 · Jun 26, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
not to be ignored is decoupling/resonance control for any spinner.

I found that the Herzan changed things a bunch when evaluating the Aqua La Diva. it allowed it to be head and head with the SGM into the Aqua Formula until further software advances moved the SGM farther ahead.

I would 'guess' that active vibration would have more performance significance than cables. it dramatically effects image focus, delicacy, bass articulation, ambient retrieval and ease.

4 of us did shun mook vs Stacore under Lampi. For all 4 the difference was a no contest in shun mook favor. Even when the Lampi was on mook on the 800 quid wooden rack. One of them is now using the shun mook on top of the stacore for his Lampi. Quite possibly the rubber feet of the Lampi did not help the stacore

spiritofmusic · Jun 26, 2017

I can tell you for certain rubber feet compromise fatally the effects on Stacore
On both my balanced transformer and cdp, results using the stock rubber footers produced a "meh" result
Going to hard metal couplers (Symposium) transformed the results all round
Ked, you need to repeat the trial with this in mind
It's a shame you didn't allow the best of the Stacore to shine
Btw, don't use Mooks or Stillpoints as the footers since they have their own take on the music
Simple metal footers will do

853guy · Jun 26, 2017

PeterA said:
853guy, I've never known your posts to be poorly reasoned. You do know that Al M. is a digital-only guy, don't you? Nor has he expressed those kinds of sentiments about vinyl. Your parallel universe analogy does not really make sense in this case.

I can't speak for other vinyl guys, but I try not to encourage others to adopt vinyl into their systems so that analog can coexist peacefully in their systems with digital, regardless of transport or file/server delivery method, so that they can avail themselves of more music. In that sense, I have a "live and let live" attitude. People can and should do whatever they want regarding music and how to listen to it.

Now it would be interesting to get this thread back on topic and discuss the sonic differences between the various digital delivery methods. Do people hear differences in sound quality, and if so, how would they describe these differences?

Al M. said:
True, but I still found it funny. I took it for the light-hearted response that I thought it was meant to be.

Hi Peter, Hi Al,

Yes, unfortunately the tongue I had in my cheek probably didn't come across while typing. And yes, it was meant as a light-hearted response to Al, rather than a critique of him.

The point - which was quickly headed off by Spirit - was that it's just as easy to judge someone else's pursuit of perfection as an abject and wanton waste of time, despite the fact most of us (or maybe all of us) have compulsions and predilections that look just as ludicrous to those we are judging. Like I said in my other post, making CD-Rs of content I already had on CD and comparing versions relative to whether they were burned in real time or at 2x, 4x or 8x the speed was indeed something that occupied a disproportionate amount of my time, having already compared every possible CD-R brand before settling on the Delkins. That we tend to believe our experience encompasses the totality of the world is part of what it is to be human, and as such, what makes us susceptible to see clearly the log in another's eye long before we see the one in our own.

Many if not most of us are willing to engage in arcane practices in order to extract the greatest possible subjective performance from our format(s) or choice (irrespective of how that may appear to those whose format of choice is not the same as ours), and that this driving passion leads us to forage through the minutiae is ultimately what allows us to derive such high levels of enjoyment from our systems.

As to the OP, I can only share that I've heard some truly brilliant systems built around CD transports, and some truly brilliant ones built around servers, but mostly, in describing the sonic differences I would only be pointing to the best and worst case scenarios of each, rather than making any meaningful comparisons between them of any observational value.

My best to you both,

853guy

spiritofmusic · Jun 26, 2017

853, well said
I'm not detecting any lack of grace, or snipeyness from any of the streaming proponents, yourself, Alex/Asuify, KeithR etc
And I'm one of the "1%" who find that iPad interface pretty cold when it comes to music library
I think those who feel a bit put upon by pro-streaming comments maybe are being unecesarily defensive, yes?

twitch · Jun 26, 2017

jeffrey_t said:
You're obviously not addicted to the best.....

you mean 'your ego is not addicted' !

Barry2013 · Jun 26, 2017

bonzo75 said:
You should try the Furutech CD destat and some of the CD mats. And as for digital cables, isn't 70% of the cost and time of the vivaldi stack experimenting with the best cable combination, as opposed to the best filter combination of HQP?

A word of caution on CD mats
I used an SDI one and after a few years the laser went on my then Sony 777ES CD/SACD player.
Could have been a coincidence but I suspect not

Al M. · Jun 26, 2017

Barry2013 said:
A word of caution on CD mats
I used an SDI one and after a few years the laser went on my then Sony 777ES CD/SACD player.
Could have been a coincidence but I suspect not

Good to know. I don't do any of this stuff. I do have a few 'green' CDs from 20 years ago or so, but that was then.

microstrip · Jun 26, 2017

bonzo75 said:
You should try the Furutech CD destat and some of the CD mats. And as for digital cables, isn't 70% of the cost and time of the vivaldi stack experimenting with the best cable combination, as opposed to the best filter combination of HQP?

No. As far as I know Vivaldi users know what they expect from Vivaldi digital cables, will get support from their dealers and probably will try one or two types and will be happy with them. For me HQPlayer is a mysterious and complex system, relying on internet forums and it seems to me a single or a few person developments. It surely represents great value for money, but it is no way equivalent to digital cables!

BTW the Vivaldi filters are clearly described in the manual, including advice, technical details and figures of the impulse response for the technical minded user.

A $42,000 transport.

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