The Formidable Renaissance 15

Big Dog RJ

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Feb 2, 2012
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Ok I finally got the chance to sit down and listen to an awesome combination of gear, which was obviously quite different from what this owner previously had; (MG20.7, MC452 with the GAT pre). He had retained the Kondo Overture for a while now, about 3 years and I have tried the overture on my previous Quads, which I liked very much.

Now the system comprises of the Martin Logan Ren15A, CJ Classic 120 (with EL34’s) and the GAT series 2 pre.
I can go on virtually all day about the sound, soundstage, dynamics, subtle nuances and so on, but since I am addressing a well-versed audiophile audience, I will make it as simple as possible.

I don’t know whether or exactly what component contributed to the overall sound, since it is somewhat hard to say on the Ren15A, especially when it has high powered built in amps! Therefore, to me the Classic 120 seemed to be overkill for a stat hybrid with such high efficiency to add.

The sound was very powerful, seemed to have no limits in output power. Dynamic is an understatement! It is more like a rocket taking off, and yet can deliver a whisper in a wink! The speed, transparency and acceleration from a charging African wild elephant to a butterfly is so seamless, it is quite mind boggling. For those looking for a big powerful sound, would find the Ren15A as a perfect fit, especially for quite large rooms, having ample space behind the panels.
The design is very different to the previous models. The panel (using Blade tech) is even thinner! It looks like the side of an A4 sheet of paper, so to speak yet very rigid and very robust. The panel is completely flat/straight without any fixed tilt. The cabinetry is solid! It is heavily braced and does not vibrate and it is quite longer compared to say the Summit or the Ethos. It is quite heavier as well, and would require at least two people to move around for placement. Quite a number of controls as well on the back, including the Anthem Room Correction software port.

To me, I found this to be too fiddly. I just prefer to drop in a CD or drop the needle, sit back and just listen! I guess I’m old fashioned… Even when I had the big Infinity’s, adjusting that dam cross over was a pain in the butt… high gain/low gain/HF filter/LF filters/low pass & high pass something else, bloody hell, what didn’t it have? I also found with every track you played, you would have to always adjust accordingly and this was very annoying.

Fast fwd 25 years, I can see that ARC software and Room EQ seems to be more simpler, when you get it right. However, to me this seems too cumbersome, plus with my lame IT skills, I probably wouldn’t get it right in the first place!

The Ren15A definitely has a wider soundstage, one that is also more in terms of that 3D depth and superb visual effects. The bass is what struck the most, it is up there with all the bass that is required, hence no need for subs in this system. The only drawback for me was the levels were too loud, and my ears are not accustomed to such high levels. Call it mature listening, not sure but after a while I began to have listener fatigue. I would have never thought a CJ system would give me listener fatigue especially when CJ is known for sublime sonic purity and allows you to relax into your favorite recordings. But this was far too loud. When it was turned down it was very smooth and something that I could easily live with forever.

We then tried the Kondo Overture- AH! Now that’s what I call relaxation and musicality at its best! Delivering just 32w of pure class A in integrated form was superb on the Ren15A! It was all there! Basically, nothing to complain about here whatsoever. It did not have the airy high extensions of the GAT/Classic 120 combination, but everything else was just right. The highs, superb EL34 midrange, and tight super-fast mid bass was what I was looking for. It had all the required SOTA details/attributes since the Ren15A is powered and delivers the bass extremely well compared to any other ML hybrid I have heard so far. I am assuming that the smaller models, ESL 13, 11 & 9 would also be able to provide similar transparency and detail retrieval but with less bass impact. Then again depends on the room.

I am not sure what to compare here exactly though, whether I should review the amps or the speakers but one thing I would have preferred to listen to would have been the CJ amps driving a full range stat / panel on its own, such as the CLX. I can only imagine what the sound would be like upto a certain point, when the powered bass drivers take over. As far as driving the panel, I sincerely think anything from 20 to 50 watts of healthy power is more than adequate!

To sum it up, I couldn’t see myself spending this kind of money on a system where the pre-power combination alone amounts to nearly 50 grand! Then comes along the Ren15A which will retail in Aus close to 50 grand, so all up amps plus speakers are 100 grand plus. Forget it, I am not in that league, even if finances permitted. But for those who would consider this level of spend, plus what it delivers at this expenditure, I would have to say is truly remarkable.

And on another note, my humble CAV45 and the Ethos, closing in at just under 15 grand- is truly “remarkable” as well!
Cheers, RJ
 

AZWink

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Jan 10, 2017
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Great review, Big Dog. Thanks!

I have yet to listen to the Renaissance 15A. Even though it's setup at the local audio shop in town I haven't had the opportunity to stop in to give a listen. After reading your write-up I think I'll create the opportunity to stop. I've owned ML's since 1998 when I purchased my first set of ReQuest and fell in love with the hybrid stat sound..

Thanks, again!

Dan
 

Big Dog RJ

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Feb 2, 2012
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G'day Dan,

Glad to hear that you like the hybrid stats from Martin Logan and you have enjoyed them for many years...

Similarly after having gone through various driver type transducers, setting my eyes and ears on my first experience with the CLSIIz's, I knew that was it! Went through a couple of Quads after that, then onto ribbons and now back to stats. I must say, unlike the past hybrids, with the help of DSP and digital filters, plus higher quality parts and extremely rigid design, Martin Logan hybrids have come a very long way since those early days.

Now currently owning the Ethos and after listening to the Ren15A, I can clearly see where ML are headed. These new hybrids are like no other. They are powerful, solid build and can create a very hefty impact when called for, at the same time soft as silk... the speed, transparency and acceleration are outstanding!

I am not sure if they would suit smaller rooms, although the other models, such as the Impression or Expression may suit better. One thing for sure is the Ren15A can drive and move a lot of air! The last time I actually experienced this type of sound, fairly similar but not quite, was with the Naim Statement amplifiers and Audio Analysis ribbons. The Naim's go for around 220 grand of hard earned money and the AA Omega's retail for around 40 grand in Aussie land. Comparing it to the Ren15A driven with CJ top of the line, quite a different sound plus a different price range altogether in terms of amplification.

If I was to choose, it would definitely be the Ren15 with the CJ system, since that is what I have known and become accustomed to. Not to say that the Naim and AA system was any less in sonic performance, was probably equally good but I just prefer tube amplification.

The only down side to my experience was that unlike the Naim + AA system, where the panels were driven full range, the Ren15A has built in amplification and not just ordinary amplification but very powerful amplification. Not just a few 100 watts, nearly puts out 600 per side! Therefore, driving the panels with anything above 100w of power is going to generate an awesome wave front, which to me was quite confronting to be honest. Was it live? sure! but could I personally relax to it for endless hours as I'm used to, hell no!

I think this type of system is right up there with the mighty battle ships, such as Sound Lab, AA Omega's/Amphi's, Maggie's MG20 series, Wilsons, Genesis, and those big Infinity systems of the ice age (which I have owned); the Ren15A is definitely a "formidable force" in this arena, and can very easily compete with such systems.

I would definitely consider a much larger room, no doubt, otherwise I don't see this type of system performing at its best without phase issues and unwanted noise/stray frequencies due to its front and rear firing bass drivers. Although the system has DSP and so on, the ARC (anthem room correction) system can only be accessed via its software port and requires the mic set up to dial in properly, for that overall fine balance. I guess at this level, obviously that finer adjustment would make a significant difference in a dedicated room, no doubt.

As for me, I just couldn't be bothered. After working nearly 7 days in a row, with just one day off from hard labor (14 hr shifts to be exact), I would prefer to just fire up the system, pop in a SACD or LP sit back and relax...

Let us know how you go with the Ren15A audition and if you came across similar experiences to what I have encountered. Would be nice to know, and all the best in your quest.
Cheers, big woof- RJ
 

apogee

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Oct 5, 2013
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Hi would a cls with a rel g1 be better than the renaissance??
Just curious
pierre
 

Ron Resnick

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Jan 24, 2015
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I suspect, but I definitely do not know, that the Renaissance 15 probably offers some warmth and impact in the frequency range of 100 Hz to 200 Hz range which I found lacking in the CLX -- above the frequency range at which the G1 would be crossed in.

A somewhat relevant excerpt from http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?14722-Martin-Logan-Neolith/page7&highlight=neolith

. . . I never loved the full-range CLS or the CLX because I find them to be too lacking in dynamics and impact in the 200 to 400 Hz range. I don't know anything about musical instruments so I do not know exactly what goes on in that frequency range, but, to my ears, something important and impactful and realism-creating goes on there.

With the CLX I was missing warmth and impact in that frequency range. I have learned that I prefer a hybrid speaker system in which the panel crosses over to an integrated cone at a higher frequency than the frequency at which a full-range panel (i.e., the CLX) would cross over to external subwoofers.

This explains why I like the Prodigys, which have two 10” cones crossed over at 250 to 400 Hz. This also explains why I liked the Statement E2, whose panel crossed over to eight 7” cone drivers at up to 200 Hz.
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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I suspect, but I definitely do not know, that the Renaissance 15 probably offers some warmth and impact in the frequency range of 100 Hz to 200 Hz range which I found lacking in the CLX -- above the frequency range at which the G1 would be crossed in.

A somewhat relevant excerpt from http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?14722-Martin-Logan-Neolith/page7&highlight=neolith

. . . I never loved the full-range CLS or the CLX because I find them to be too lacking in dynamics and impact in the 200 to 400 Hz range. I don't know anything about musical instruments so I do not know exactly what goes on in that frequency range, but, to my ears, something important and impactful and realism-creating goes on there.

With the CLX I was missing warmth and impact in that frequency range. I have learned that I prefer a hybrid speaker system in which the panel crosses over to an integrated cone at a higher frequency than the frequency at which a full-range panel (i.e., the CLX) would cross over to external subwoofers.

This explains why I like the Prodigys, which have two 10” cones crossed over at 250 to 400 Hz. This also explains why I liked the Statement E2, whose panel crossed over to eight 7” cone drivers at up to 200 Hz.

Ron, Have a look at this helpful chart. 200-400 is the upper bass, lower midrange. There is a lot going on in that range with musical instruments and voices.

10519652_315531808649763_2965178789119365455_n.jpg
 
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Ron Resnick

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Thank you, Peter!
 

Big Dog RJ

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Feb 2, 2012
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Trying to match a CLS with a sub...

REL subs are great, quite fast and can deliver the bass required as far as I have experienced in many systems. However, most of these were mini-monitor types or studio refs, therefore required good subs to reproduce that lower bass. Speakers like SF Cremona auditors, Mission bookshelfs, Infinity studio monitors, Rogers monitors and Paradigm studio monitors. JBL's and Dali were another I remember, plus B&W's worked very well REL's.

The CLS and CLX are full range stats, as you all know and are aware of... However, many seem to claim that they cannot produce the low bass required, ok so be it.

To me, it is like a pure single malt scotch or very high grade Cognac, to be enjoyed in the way it was intended. The moment you add coke or some drink mixer, you have ruined it! As my pops used to say, adding coke to Chivas, Black or the Glen line is to "bastardize" the scotch... and that to me is adding a sub to full range stats/panels.

Again, this is my preference and take on it. After all this forum is to view / discuss different opinions and derive guidelines helping decisions along the way... I guess I'm deaf in that very low bass range but to me the CLS or CLX don't require subs. They are pure and very natural stats in their own right, plus most of this low bass that people crave for is not even found on the recording, it is an added artifice.

Even when I'm listening on the Ethos, I have turned the bass very low, ad I find -2 to -4 to be more than adequate. Of course these level controls are affected by the room. On certain recordings I find that bass to artificial and not necessary. The Ren15A with the CJ gear was one dream system I was waiting to hear, and I was not that impressed! The main reason is that the playback levels were far too loud (for me) and the bass settings were not balanced at all. Listener fatigue started to set in and boom factors were quite apparent. What I'm trying to describe is that the CLX / CLS are crystal clear, very articulate, very linear, superb speed, high levels of tonal accuracy, and transparency being the highest factors for me, compared to the stats that I have previously owned. Another remarkable factor is that the CLX & CLS are both capable of capturing every minute note, slight nuance/detail retrieval and spacial cues in the soundstage to such an affect, adding a sub would just ruin it.

Having new technology built in, such as DSP, 24 bit digital cross-overs, ARC room correction software systems and so, do help to a great extent. Therefore, if these similar room correction systems could be added to the CLS system with a sub to match with a well integrated cross-over system, then perhaps the CLS with a REL may be a good system overall, I wouldn't know.
It would certainly be a good project to embark on. As for me, the CLS is a true classic of a full range stat, and if driven with the right amp it actually can bring out that lower bass to a certain affect, one that is very natural and tuneful bass that is found on most high quality recordings.

I remember there was one person who commented about all this room correction and software gizmo's, he asked me whether we are heading back to the good old days of EQ... those massive 10 to 15 band equalizers, glowing with all their LEDS lit up, the more bands you had the better the control factor, yeah right!
Then came systems with no controls whatsoever, not even balance controls on some, and those systems sounded far cleaner and more natural. That person was my pops! I guess this is why he still claims the Apogee Diva's were by far the best we've ever owned, without any room correction gizmos whatsoever- ok pops you got it!

By the way, pops arrives here on Aug 02, will spend some time with us in Melbourne. He hasn't heard the Ethos as yet, and I know he'll have something to say about it...
Cheers to our dads and respect!
RJ
 

Argonaut

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Jul 30, 2013
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An excellent counterpoint RJ to The above considerations made by Ron, which as an CLX owner I do not particullay recognise even at stock factory setting and as you say, with nothing artificial added to the audio.

Perhaps Ron you are unaware of the settings available that are internal to the CLX crossover circuit, they offer the ability to add +1 or +2 db to the frequency responce in the lower mid base range that most certainly add weight and dencity of tone in the area that concern you ? many owners may still prefer the factory setting, however the adjustment circuit is most effective and for my part I found the the + 2 setting whilst producing impressive results from lower mid to mid range it was a little too full on in my room, settling on +1

As an example on one of my habitual test tracks 'This is the end' by The Doors, the chopper rotor blades in the opening sequence go from highly percievable to highly palpable as well whilst the drum solo from Ray Manzarek hits you in the gut and gives ones internal organs a workout, dammed impressive for an electrostatic transducer.

image.jpg
 

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