A world first? Passive v active isolation platforms test

Stacore · Aug 31, 2017

Tango said:
Sirs,

The active anti-vibe platform has auto leveling feature. How do you level the platform of Stacore?

Kind regards,
Tang

Dear Tang,

Manually, by controlling the pressure in each support point individually
when pressurizing the platform.
The switches you can see at the side help make this process quick.
Every 2-3 months one would correct the pressure to compensate for inevitable small
leakages. With a bit of a skill, this process takes less than a minute and does not
spoil the level.

We did not go into auto-leveling since the above pumping and leveling process is v quick and you do it only few times per year.
Auto leveling would also not allow to play with the pressure easily.

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

PeterA · Aug 31, 2017

Stacore said:
Dear Tang,

Manually, by controlling the pressure in each support point individually
when pressurizing the platform.
The switches you can see at the side help make this process quick.
Every 2-3 months one would correct the pressure to compensate for inevitable small
leakages. With a bit of a skill, this process takes less than a minute and does not
spoil the level.

We did not go into auto-leveling since the above pumping and leveling process is v quick and you do it only few times per year.
Auto leveling would also not allow to play with the pressure easily.

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

Two of my three Vibraplanes have auto-leveling and the user can adjust the pressure easily simply by rotating the pressure dial. Different pressure levels do not effect the leveling, just the height and firmness of the bladders.

It sounds as if the Stacore products have very well designed air bladders with minimal leakage. I have found over time that leakage has increased to where my unit with no self leveling needs adjustment about once a week. Vibraplane does not recommend units without the self-leveling feature under components that have frequent user interaction like turntables and CD transports. The act of putting on a record or removing the heavy acrylic dust cover puts frequent pressure differences on the unit, so the self leveling feature comes in very handy.

My original unit which I filled with a hand pump and which did not have self leveling became too finicky under my turntable after about five years. It now sits under an amplifier. I replaced it with a self leveling unit connected to a compressor and after five years, it still sits under my turntable with out any issues.

Perhaps the Stacore has a fundamentally different design which may be less finicky and more reliable over the long term, I don't know. It will be interesting to see how they act in the field after say 5-10 years of use. One of my Vibraplanes is about 12 years old and the other two are five years old.

Are there any plans to distribute the Stacore in the US? At this point, unfortunately, it seems shipping individual units due to weight makes them very expensive alternative over here. However, compared to the cost of the active units, and if they do indeed outperform them, then they may still be attractive. I think they are roughly twice the cost of a Vibraplane.

Stacore · Aug 31, 2017

Dear Peter,

PeterA said:
Two of my three Vibraplanes have auto-leveling and the user can adjust the pressure easily simply by rotating the pressure dial. Different pressure levels do not effect the leveling, just the height and firmness of the bladders.

Good to know that, thanks for sharing. We've dismissed the auto-leveling idea at the beginning as rather unnecessary and I must say I did not research the leveling valves too much. However if there is a need for that, we can do a research and design a custom platform with auto-leveling.

PeterA said:
It sounds as if the Stacore products have very well designed air bladders with minimal leakage. I have found over time that leakage has increased to where my unit with no self leveling needs adjustment about once a week.

The other brain behind Stacore - Bogdan Stasiak - is, among few other things, a specialist in high pressure installations for marine engines. The pneumatic layout and execution is his work. We use only screw on connections /apart from one place with a quick connect, which does not affect the leakage as it is before the valves/
It's very time consuming but gives great results in terms of leakage. The air bladders themselves are industrial/lab grade units.

PeterA said:
Vibraplane does not recommend units without the self-leveling feature under components that have frequent user interaction like turntables and CD transports. The act of putting on a record or removing the heavy acrylic dust cover puts frequent pressure differences on the unit, so the self leveling feature comes in very handy.

Ou, interesting to learn that. My megastacore at home hosts my TT with a heavy acrylic cover plus I tend to pile up vinyls on it. I correct the pressure every 3 months.

PeterA said:
My original unit which I filled with a hand pump and which did not have self leveling became too finicky under my turntable after about five years. It now sits under an amplifier. I replaced it with a self leveling unit connected to a compressor and after five years, it still sits under my turntable with out any issues.

What exactly do you mean by finicky? It looses level or height?

PeterA said:
Are there any plans to distribute the Stacore in the US? At this point, unfortunately, it seems shipping individual units due to weight makes them very expensive alternative over here. However, compared to the cost of the active units, and if they do indeed outperform them, then they may still be attractive. I think they are roughly twice the cost of a Vibraplane.

Plans there are but we still haven't met the right person. If there is someone serious and
with the right capabilities to deal with our 100kg platforms, please PM! As for the price points,
Vibraplanes are very good but still industrial products. Our platforms are artesanal, hand crafted,
audio devices with beautiful Italian slate bodies for best sonic performance.

Cheers,

spiritofmusic · Aug 31, 2017

Jarek, I can confirm the luxury feel and look of your product.
It's a fantastic sleek piece that will add value both sonically, but also visually too.
Nothing can touch it aesthetically except maybe some of the artisan racks out there.
Minus K and active platforms are positively ugly in comparison.
Certainly if looks are critical in a listening room, there can be no objection to Stacore.
You're to be really commended for producing a piece that delivers the goods sonically in spades but also looks a million $s/€s/£s.
I'm really looking fwds to what we might come up with re the 3 platform wide/2 tier bespoke rack housing 6 Stacores.
Whatever you design needs to fully reveal the full visuals of yr platforms.

Stacore · Aug 31, 2017

Thank you very much Marc!
Our main design effort is not to spoil
the natural beauty of this stone.
It does the rest

Cheers,

spiritofmusic · Aug 31, 2017

Beauty...and the beast, trying to lug 65+30kg up 20 steps of my spiral stairs to the loft!
My friendly neighbour helping me wasn't that complimentary at the time.

Stacore · Aug 31, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
Beauty...and the beast, trying to lug 65+30kg up 20 steps of my spiral stairs to the loft!
My friendly neighbour helping me wasn't that complimentary at the time.

Yes, I know its a pain, we have to carry them constantly.
And as I explained I cannot do much as the quality mass is one
of the vibration control means here.
But they do pay off nicely for the effort

Cheers,

spiritofmusic · Aug 31, 2017

Yep, I can attest to that
Jarek, I'm a little anxious about floor loading w our idea of the 3-wide/2-tier rack.q
That's 95kg x2 vertically, x3 wide.
Plus wt of components.
I "think" my flr is up to it.
Otherwise my idea is to have a grid of Stacores all at flr level, OK for everything except tt which will need a lot more kneeling down from me than I'm used to

PeterA · Aug 31, 2017

Stacore said:
Dear Peter,

Good to know that, thanks for sharing. We've dismissed the auto-leveling idea at the beginning as rather unnecessary and I must say I did not research the leveling valves too much. However if there is a need for that, we can do a research and design a custom platform with auto-leveling.

The other brain behind Stacore - Bogdan Stasiak - is, among few other things, a specialist in high pressure installations for marine engines. The pneumatic layout and execution is his work. We use only screw on connections /apart from one place with a quick connect, which does not affect the leakage as it is before the valves/
It's very time consuming but gives great results in terms of leakage. The air bladders themselves are industrial/lab grade units.

Ou, interesting to learn that. My megastacore at home hosts my TT with a heavy acrylic cover plus I tend to pile up vinyls on it. I correct the pressure every 3 months.

What exactly do you mean by finicky? It looses level or height?

Plans there are but we still haven't met the right person. If there is someone serious and
with the right capabilities to deal with our 100kg platforms, please PM! As for the price points,
Vibraplanes are very good but still industrial products. Our platforms are artesanal, hand crafted,
audio devices with beautiful Italian slate bodies for best sonic performance.

Cheers,

Jarek,

By finicky, I mean that it is now about ten years old and it slowly leaks over time so once a week or so, I have to spend five seconds pushing a button to add pressure from the compressor to one of the air bladders. In other words, it leaks very slightly, so it looses height, and thus, also is slightly out of level. Not a big deal when placed under an amplifier, but it would be a big deal if placed under a turntable if absolute level is important. I can not hear a sonic difference if I forget add a tiny bit of pressure to one air bladder and I can not see that it is out of level unless I measure the height at each corner, so it is not a big deal, but it is not perfect. I just don't want to spend the money to replace it right now because it is not a big deal. Of course, I would prefer to replace it with a new unit so that it matches the other two that I have which have had no issues after five years.

From the pictures of the tubing, the Stacore looks to be of higher quality than the pressure fitted connections under my Vibraplane. The Stacore looks to be of very good quality and construction. But, if the Stacore costs $4,000 which I think is what Marc wrote, than it is considerably more expensive than the Vibraplane at $2,500. I agree with Marc that the Stacore is very attractive as far as these devices go. May I ask what an Advanced model Stacore would cost at full retail shipped to the East Coast of the US? And in case of repair, how would that be handled?

Stacore · Sep 1, 2017

Dear Peter,

Thank you very much for your interest.
The price you mention was an introductory
price for the first batch. Unfortunately we
cannot keep it if we want to survive.
Warranty repairs are of course fully covered by us,
including shipping, customs and taxes both ways.
Please check your PM for further details.

Cheers,

microstrip · Sep 1, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
Yep, I can attest to that
Jarek, I'm a little anxious about floor loading w our idea of the 3-wide/2-tier rack.q
That's 95kg x2 vertically, x3 wide.
Plus wt of components.
I "think" my flr is up to it.
Otherwise my idea is to have a grid of Stacores all at flr level, OK for everything except tt which will need a lot more kneeling down from me than I'm used to

You should get an electrical crane. It is the best accessory an audiophile can buy! And it is really inexpensive, although I am limited to 300 kg equipment ...

spiritofmusic · Sep 1, 2017

Well Micro, I have two access points to my audio cave.
20 spiral steps, or a dead lift 10' thru a 4x2 access hatch.
My GF indulges me many things audio, but a crane in the middle of her "quiet" space to access that hatch would lead me to being asked to exit the chapel

microstrip · Sep 1, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
Well Micro, I have two access points to my audio cave.
20 spiral steps, or a dead lift 10' thru a 4x2 access hatch.
My GF indulges me many things audio, but a crane in the middle of her "quiet" space to access that hatch would lead me to being asked to exit the chapel

Remember it can be moveable - all you need is four very discrete anchoring points!

spiritofmusic · Sep 1, 2017

Well, certainly if I ever want to get 120kg plus Apogee Scintillas plus requisite Krell monster amps up there, having a crane will be pretty necessary.

microstrip · Sep 1, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
Well, certainly if I ever want to get 120kg plus Apogee Scintillas plus requisite Krell monster amps up there, having a crane will be pretty necessary.

The floating magic of ribbons!

theophile · Sep 2, 2017

microstrip said:
Remember it can be moveable - all you need is four very discrete anchoring points!

Have you taken into account that he needs a crane to get the crane up there....

spiritofmusic · Sep 2, 2017

Theophile, that's a good point.
I have to say the Stacores are challenging re weight, but it appears this is an essential reason for why they are as phenomenal as they are.
My neighbour did ask if it was all worth the effort, and I was very glad to respond in the affirmative.

Mike Lavigne · Sep 2, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
Theophile, that's a good point.
I have to say the Stacores are challenging re weight, but it appears this is an essential reason for why they are as phenomenal as they are.
My neighbour did ask if it was all worth the effort, and I was very glad to respond in the affirmative.

it's easier since i'm on the ground floor. but I have 2 similar to these......covered in carpet instead of rubber. I've had over 600 pounds on them.

Dolly

I use them all the time.

microstrip · Sep 2, 2017

theophile said:
Have you taken into account that he needs a crane to get the crane up there....

The drawing is not to scale - the crane weights around 14 kg! Just one fifth of a Vibraplane ...

spiritofmusic · Oct 5, 2017

Quick update on Stacores.
Jarek just sent me some alternative footers to try.
Simple case of taking component off (cdp here), deflating platform, popping on side, screwing existing footers off, new ones on, and reinstall proceedure.
Less than 3 mins.
Clear differences, soft nylon footers were interesting but diffused the bass and lost attack.
Hard nylon footers just the right balance, and a nice upstick on the stock plastic footers.
---
At the moment I'm getting quite the most amazing 4 way synergy btwn the Stacores, Sablon Elite pwr cords, Mooks (soon to be a/b'd versus a further Stacore) and SR Black fuses.
Bass energy to spare, mids texture, high end air, absolutely glorious.
My room has opened up all these vistas, but the Stacore still needs to be really good to make the most of potentialities.
It's a bit better than really good.

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