MSB Select II arrival

Priaptor · Jun 9, 2017

EuroDriver said:
Priaptor

Hi Howie,

In this "getting to know" the Select II stage, we have the SGM at Mike's delivering bit perfect to the Select II. We are trying various bit perfect configurations in our workshop in Holland using a new Metrum Adagio as the test DAC. There a lot of variables to try out both on the hardware side, on the OS side and Player configuration to get the best sounding bit perfect delivery for the Select 2. In our development group, we are fighting over who is going to visit Mike's to test the various configurations.

As Mike gains further insight in to the sonics of different formats and sample rates, then we will propose some format conversion or upsampling strategies that could be interesting. 6 months ago, I would not have been optimistic about the SGM and it's software being able to deliver an interesting improvement in sonics to the Select 2, but there has been a big uptick in SQ of the SGM package the last few months.

Jussi Laako is continually pushing the envelope on his processing algorithms and we know there is a new family of filters coming in the not too distant future

Thanks for the update. Have you guys changed any of the hardware like the processor? Some of Jussi's new configuration of upsampling to my T&A putters out because the i7 6700k can't do it.

Obviously the Select is different so I am very interested to hear where you take Mike's system

Howie

Mike Lavigne · Jun 9, 2017

Narayan said:
Congratulations Mike, Priaptor and the "Select" few who are going to enjoy this wonderful machine, I´m sure I express the general sentiment here as to how lucky we are to be able to read about your experiences with it. I for one think the words "future proof" should bring peace of mind regarding your investment and take you out of the DAC race since sonically there seems to be no higher mountain to climb. The design is MUCH improved, It´s a good looking DAC and MSB has probably realized that at this level you not only have to sound like your price mandates, you have to look like it too.

thanks for the kind words, Narayan. it is a privilege to be able to enjoy the Select II and then share my experiences with my friends here on WBF.

so tonight I've taken out one of the big guns; the Ilia Itin Debussy Preludes, in native Quad x256 rate dsd.......11.2Mhz. this is about as 'pure' a digital recording as one could find. the dynamics, precision, purity, tonal complexity and overtones of the big concert grand piano are breathtaking.

in the 18 months I've had these files I've played them hundreds of times on a number of excellent dacs.....as they do reveal all.

it is as if I had never heard these files before when heard right now on the Select II on the big rig. the continuousness, the vivid frankness of the playing, the delicacy and nuance, the deep and complex overtones that go on forever, the tension and pace, are profound. yet so effortless and authoritative. is this direct to disc vinyl? is this tape? I don't know how to categorize this. so I won't. i'll just enjoy it.

Vince from MSB has some favorite TBM go-to piano SACD's he likes to use to demonstrate the Select II at shows. this recording is a few degrees of magnitude more real than those.

asiufy · Jun 9, 2017

Mike,

That DAC is turning you into a poet, man

Really... You were always good putting your experiences into words, but now... really, you outdone yourself!
Enjoy!

cheers,
alex

SCAudiophile · Jun 10, 2017

Mike,

Congratulations on your latest news and results with the new MSB DAC!!!

Narayan · Jun 10, 2017

Thank you very much for the Ilya Itin recommendation Mike!

Legolas · Jun 10, 2017

Can someone confirm from MSB that the Select is the first DAC they have made to have the ability to NOT upsample. If this is correct, and it can play Redbook or higher as bit perfect 'as is' sample rate, quite possibly it can avoid the filter or use a much simplified filter. Upsampling was the reason a filter was added to DS DACs and the discrete ladders we have now can handle bit perfect and more accurately track the data than ever before. I am thinking this may be the 'secret sauce' to the magic you are hearing in the Sellect II, or part of the picture to the sound.

I was told by an owner of the Select DAC that it can read as non up sampling. A clarification would be most useful guys.

analyzer · Jun 10, 2017

SCAudiophile said:
Mike,

Congratulations on your latest news and results with the new MSB DAC!!!

Also add my congrats to Mike. Undoubtely it's a great effort and I hope that your full expectations will be satisfied.
What a pity to see the Italian Aqua Formula leave the first place... the progress does not stop evidently.
my best
Marco

Mike Lavigne · Jun 10, 2017

astrostar59 said:
Can someone confirm from MSB that the Select is the first DAC they have made to have the ability to NOT upsample. If this is correct, and it can play Redbook or higher as bit perfect 'as is' sample rate, quite possibly it can avoid the filter or use a much simplified filter. Upsampling was the reason a filter was added to DS DACs and the discrete ladders we have now can handle bit perfect and more accurately track the data than ever before. I am thinking this may be the 'secret sauce' to the magic you are hearing in the Sellect II, or part of the picture to the sound.

I was told by an owner of the Select DAC that it can read as non up sampling. A clarification would be most useful guys.

my understanding is that any ladder dac by definition over (up) samples.

first off; this subject is mostly over my head. OTOH a couple years ago when I owned the Trinity dac (which has a similar ladder dac) I came across a clear explanation form Elberoth (Adam) related to how the ladder dacs of the Trinity worked that might speak to this question.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?12023-Trinity-DAC&p=238265&viewfull=1#post238265

and if that link is off-topic then my apologies.

as far as what might be the secret sauce of the MSB Select II, i'll only agree that is has a considerable amount of it, and it's not only confined to redbook. it's on every format at every resolution.

Jazzhead · Jun 10, 2017

More resolution compared to the Trinity ?

Mike Lavigne · Jun 10, 2017

asiufy said:
Mike,

That DAC is turning you into a poet, man
Really... You were always good putting your experiences into words, but now... really, you outdone yourself!
Enjoy!

cheers,
alex

thank you Alex, likely the inspiration does help me.

SCAudiophile said:
Mike,

Congratulations on your latest news and results with the new MSB DAC!!!

thank you Mark.

Narayan said:
Thank you very much for the Ilya Itin recommendation Mike!

thank you Narayan, enjoy the Itin files.

analyzer said:
Also add my congrats to Mike. Undoubtely it's a great effort and I hope that your full expectations will be satisfied.
What a pity to see the Italian Aqua Formula leave the first place... the progress does not stop evidently.
my best
Marco

thanks Marco, don't pity the proud Italian Aqua Formula, it will go to a good home and be loved. it's not a slight to be replaced by a Select II.

caesar · Jun 10, 2017

Mike Congrats!
Sorry I don't have to follow other people's systems, I thought you had the Trinity. Why do you think MSB is better than the Trinity?

Mike Lavigne · Jun 10, 2017

Jazzhead said:
More resolution compared to the Trinity ?

oh yeah. and more ease and authority too. really it's another level of overall performance and not just a 'check list' sort of thing.

to be fair one variable is my CAPSv4 server with JRiver for the Trinity dac, verses the MSB Select on the SGM with HQ Player......although when the HQ Player is in 'bit-perfect' mode I cannot say how that would compare. but this needs to be balanced by the Trinity dac using the $30k Tara Labs Grandmaster Evolution w/HFX XLR interconnects, and the MSB Select II using a much lower level set of XLR's.

caesar said:
Mike Congrats!
Sorry I don't have to follow other people's systems, I thought you had the Trinity. Why do you think MSB is better than the Trinity?

the Trinity left 16 months ago. I went with the GG by itself from then until four months ago when I acquired the Aqua Formula.

pay attention!

Jazzhead · Jun 10, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
oh yeah. and more ease and authority too. really it's another level of overall performance and not just a 'check list' sort of thing.

to be fair one variable is my CAPSv4 server with JRiver for the Trinity dac, verses the MSB Select on the SGM with HQ Player......although when the HQ Player is in 'bit-perfect' mode I cannot say how that would compare. but this needs to be balanced by the Trinity dac using the $30k Tara Labs Grandmaster Evolution w/HFX XLR interconnects, and the MSB Select II using a much lower level set of XLR's.

I guess we'll have to wait for the Trinity Golden Ref Series DAC , to compare within equal price points .

Mike Lavigne · Jun 10, 2017

Jazzhead said:
I guess we'll have to wait for the Trinity Golden Ref Series DAC , to compare within equal price points .

I think Dietmar has moved on from dacs for now. his supply of chips ran out.

Audio Exotics has him busy doing all sorts of other products and his other business too. not sure he is that committed to the digital side of things.

Jazzhead · Jun 10, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
I think Dietmar has moved on from dacs for now. his supply of chips ran out.

Yes for now , is why only the Golden Reference series phono and pre amp will be launched at the upcoming AE show . Am digressing here , back to the Select .

Priaptor · Jun 10, 2017

Jazzhead said:
More resolution compared to the Trinity ?

I also just took delivery of a Select II on Wednesday. More resolution than the Trinity? Can't answer that question, maybe Mike can. I can say it is the most effortless and resolving DAC I have ever heard or owned.

Last night I listened to Hilary Hahn's Elgar with LSO in DSD64 with a reported DR of 22. Elgar is not my favorite, however, this recording quite extraordinary and Hahn is my favorite violinist and I have to say, given the complexity of the arrangement, this was the first time I have ever REALLY heard this album. I sat through it twice. Anyone who has heard this album, at least IMHO, will admit it is quite a feat to be able to sit through it not just once but twice.

Surely the Trinity is awesome. Mike bought his DAC for the right reasons, because he heard it and loved it. I bought it for all the stupid and idiotic reasons, which in my world made sense to me, namely I had the V which I loved but with the phasing out of the V didn't want to be left with and end of the line product so I did what any crazy moronic audiophile would do; empty the bank account and buy an absurdly priced DAC that I had never heard. I love MSB and have been a loyal customer of theirs for 5 years now. I have owned many great DACs, including theirs (and many others) as well as having listened to others in my system in controlled environments and even given the relatively new state, not yet burned in, can say this DAC is very special.

To answer your question, I can't unless I had it in my system to compare. But who cares. I love the music and am in heaven even at this early state in my trek.

Jazzhead · Jun 10, 2017

Priaptor said:
I also just took delivery of a Select II on Wednesday. More resolution than the Trinity? Can't answer that question, maybe Mike can. I can say it is the most effortless and resolving DAC I have ever heard or owned.

Last night I listened to Hilary Hahn's Elgar with LSO in DSD64 with a reported DR of 22. Elgar is not my favorite, however, this recording quite extraordinary and Hahn is my favorite violinist and I have to say, given the complexity of the arrangement, this was the first time I have ever REALLY heard this album. I sat through it twice. Anyone who has heard this album, at least IMHO, will admit it is quite a feat to be able to sit through it not just once but twice.

View attachment 33363

Surely the Trinity is awesome. Mike bought his DAC for the right reasons, because he heard it and loved it. I bought it for all the stupid and idiotic reasons, which in my world made sense to me, namely I had the V which I loved but with the phasing out of the V didn't want to be left with and end of the line product so I did what any crazy moronic audiophile would do; empty the bank account and buy an absurdly priced DAC that I had never heard. I love MSB and have been a loyal customer of theirs for 5 years now. I have owned many great DACs, including theirs as well as having listened to others in my system in controlled environments and even given the relatively new state, not yet burned in, can say this DAC is very special.

To answer your question, I can't unless I had it in my system to compare. But who cares. I love the music and am in heaven even at this early state in my trek.

Thanks for chipping in . Congrats on what seemingly is the stairway to Nirvana ! Look forward to living it , thru your experiences with the Seelct 2 .

Mike Lavigne · Jun 10, 2017

Jazzhead said:
Yes for now , is why only the Golden Reference series phono and pre amp will be launched at the upcoming AE show . Am digressing here , back to the Select .

I loved the Trinity dac. it was a moon shot for me at that time to find out whether PCM could be great. and......it was, and opened my mind to great digital and set me on the path that brought me here. no doubt if Deitmar decides to take it to another level it will be very fine. my money says he is done with digital due to the complexity of the interface issues and the lack of his favorite chip sets. he is busy with his other projects and is limited in resources with so many balls in the air. OTOH I personally hope he does do a 'next level' digital product which would be good for all us lovers of great audio.

Mike Lavigne · Jun 10, 2017

Priaptor said:
I also just took delivery of a Select II on Wednesday. More resolution than the Trinity? Can't answer that question, maybe Mike can. I can say it is the most effortless and resolving DAC I have ever heard or owned.

Last night I listened to Hilary Hahn's Elgar with LSO in DSD64 with a reported DR of 22. Elgar is not my favorite, however, this recording quite extraordinary and Hahn is my favorite violinist and I have to say, given the complexity of the arrangement, this was the first time I have ever REALLY heard this album. I sat through it twice. Anyone who has heard this album, at least IMHO, will admit it is quite a feat to be able to sit through it not just once but twice.

View attachment 33363

Surely the Trinity is awesome. Mike bought his DAC for the right reasons, because he heard it and loved it. I bought it for all the stupid and idiotic reasons, which in my world made sense to me, namely I had the V which I loved but with the phasing out of the V didn't want to be left with and end of the line product so I did what any crazy moronic audiophile would do; empty the bank account and buy an absurdly priced DAC that I had never heard. I love MSB and have been a loyal customer of theirs for 5 years now. I have owned many great DACs, including theirs (and many others) as well as having listened to others in my system in controlled environments and even given the relatively new state, not yet burned in, can say this DAC is very special.

To answer your question, I can't unless I had it in my system to compare. But who cares. I love the music and am in heaven even at this early state in my trek.

thank you Howie.

but, but.....I bought mine for stupid reasons too, dammit!

I know that recording and have the file, and will make sure I play it later. cancel that.....enjoying it right now!!

enjoy!

asiufy · Jun 10, 2017

Guys,

Make sure to play with the two DSD options on the SELECT! I don't remember their names now, but Vince did a quick A x B at the LA Show, and I believe the "Optimized" setting sounded significantly better!

cheers,
alex

MSB Select II arrival

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