MSB Select II arrival

Mike Lavigne said:

as he is leaving for Montana (and leaving the Select II behind) on Monday I would expect he is just enjoying his Select II and has not come up for air.

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LoL

Mike Lavigne said:

I'm really enjoying this dac, it's very special and as you told me, a whole different thing than my previous digital. the show performance was just a hint of what it can do on the big rig.

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You've always had some special digital - still remember your Linn CD12 from years ago

Heck, now you have me thinking DAC VI whenever it comes out!

Mike Lavigne said:

(...) and it's not so much that it sounds better, but in the ways it sounds better that so far is impressive. there is just a sense of easy musical expression without stress, and with such natural speed, separation, clarity and command. nothing forced or confused. like other digital is a bit constipated and filtered. yet the flow is hypnotic. make your audio checklist and check every box. it does it all (...)

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Mike,

Now, you have to get this recording. It changed my perception of how much of the real it is possible to get in a recording.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?23072-My-curent-reference-Les-routes-de-l%B4esclavage-(Jordi-Savall)

Jump to minute 7 of the video - thinks become particularly interesting from this moment on.

Mike Lavigne said:

thanks Micro,

I like Jordi Savall and have a number of his recordings. I will acquire it asap. i'll see if I can download a hi-rez version. it's likely a 192/24 or dxd master.

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I would love to get it at such rate - Manuel Mohino, who produces most of Aliavox recordings uses Merging Technologies Pyaramix. I usually listen to the SACD - Qobus has a 24bit, 96 kHz version, but due to copyright it is only accessible from France.

Mike Lavigne said:

thanks V2,

and welcome to WBF!! we can use some of your wisdom and knowledge here.

and it seems congrats on the MSB Reference dac too! that is a big step up. I heard the Reference dac at the L.A.Show.......it's mightly fine sounding.

thanks for the feedback on the transport verses files. it would be interesting to compare the SGM doing 'bit perfect' with HQ Player to both the MSB transports and the W20. and I too am anticipating the new Renderer for the Select in a month or so.

can't wait for you to visit again, and maybe include our mutual friend next time.

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Hi Mike,

I came up for air.

Actually, I have have been able to hold back on my OCD tendencies and don't want to really give my impressions until it is properly broken in and believe it or not, no matter how tempted, I am giving it a couple of days. My circumstance is a little different than yours as I am wanting to drive my amp direct, using the pre stage of the Select II something I did not do with with the V. Right now I have it hooked up that way as I said, my OCD "forced" me to do it. However, I realize that it is too many variables to do an initial assessment so I am going back to using the REF10 to keep my variables intact as I move through the process of burning in and assessing.

My very short listen to Frisell's new Small Town album was mind blowing. I felt like I was buried in the bowels of his guitar. Detail is pretty amazing. However, it's such a big difference from my V going into the REF10, that as amazing as my initial impressions are, I need to go back to square one and get comfortable with the system by changing one variable at a time. Obviously, my real assessment will be coming when I return from Montana (can't wait to get out there).

I know you are using the SGM. Are you upsampling with HQPlayer to the Select II. While I have never used the SGM (although I was thinking of it for my T&A DSD DAC which is part of my headphone system, which consists of the T&A, Cavalli Liquid Gold and HD800S upsampling to DSD512 with HQPlayer which is MARVELOUS), I did do some extensive experimentation of HQPlayer on my MSB V. The best I ultimately heard HQPlayer sound on my MSB V was just using HQPlayer as a player, applying NO filters and letting the stream come in unfettered by HQPlayer. Unlike the T&A I found applying any kind of upsampling, PCM or DSD with HQPlayer to the MSB V took away some of the magic (for me at least) and I wound up going back to providing the V with a direct data stream using my microRendu using either DLNA or Roon OR my heavily modded server with JRiver. As I said before, Roon with the release of 1.3 is a huge improvement as a player and became my go to in the last few months with the V and how I will likely do my preliminary evaluation of the Select II.

Glad to hear your comments and will definitely be reporting my findings along the way.

Howie

Mike Lavigne said:

starting with the Analog Dac, then the Select II, and now the Reference DAC, MSB has re-invented their product line up.

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Interesting, I didn't realize the Ref dac is the new VI - I would think they would release something in the lineup between the 8k and 40k price level at some point though.

If not, maybe I'll just upgrade the power supply instead.

KeithR said:

Interesting, I didn't realize the Ref dac is the new VI - I would think they would release something in the lineup between the 8k and 40k price level at some point though.

If not, maybe I'll just upgrade the power supply instead.

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I didn't either

I thought it was a newly redesigned Reference

Steve Williams said:

I didn't either

I thought it was a newly redesigned Reference

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Steve,

They never had a Reference. They went from different iterations of the IV to the V and the V was probably their product with the shortest lifespan now being replaced by The Reference at a similar price point to the V.

Howie

Yes, the MSB Reference is the new "DAC VI"

Starting with the Analog DAC, then SELECT II, MSB had a new platform which they built their DACs. and the DAC IV/V series posed serious challenges, as they used an entirely (older) platform. So, when developing the input/output modules that MSB is known for, they basically had to engineer them twice, once for the newer platform (for Analog/SELECT) and then to the DAC V, which used their older platform.
So work began on the "DAC VI", which would employ the new platform, to be common throughout all the DACs. Of course, the "VI" became the "Reference", and the rest is history!
As can be seen on the website, the optional modules on the Reference are pretty much the same as on the SELECT, which makes it easier on the manufacturer and on the customers as well.

That said, we just got a beautiful DAC V yesterday, and I couldn't resist hooking it up for a "refresher". And it's every bit as good as I remember it The accuracy, the realism, it's still some of the best digital out there, SELECT/Reference notwithstanding!


cheers,
alex

Mike Lavigne said:

likely MSB sees the gap between the Analog Dac and the Reference and will fill it with the appropriate product......and I'd bet it's a focus now.

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Knowing MSB it wouldn't surprise me if they replace the Analog (as amazing a DAC as it is) with a more expensive Analog as their way of "filling in the price gap".

This "hobby" is hysterical. I remember when I first saw the Analog and wanted a listen. So I put it into my system at the time thinking "hey pretty good" given that it was "cheaper" than my EMM DAC2X. Of course my buddy brings over the absurdly priced Diamond Plus IV with the just released Femto77 and it was love at first note and the rationalization and justifications started as well as hiding all bank statements from the wife.

The rest is history. My wife now just ignores all my BS. She now just shakes her head.

Mike Lavigne said:

I'm a 'full disclosure'----'forgiveness instead of permission' kinda guy. I don't ask. and don't hide either.



when my wife is around my audiophile friends occasionally someone will comment how supportive she is to my hobby.

she responds sternly, "don't mistake understanding for support" and then she smiles. that typically prompts some laughter.

been married 43 years, to the same woman. she is great.

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We have been married 39+ years. We live by the don't ask don't tell philosophy which works for us. The biggest head shake from my wife came when I was "exchanging" my Nola Baby Grands for the Concert Grand Golds. Watching a bunch of old codgers moving those things up and down the stairs brought a great head shake and some good laughter.

Priaptor said:

Watching a bunch of old codgers moving those things up and down the stairs brought a great head shake and some good laughter.

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Ah, yes... The non-glamorous side of the hobby


cheers,
alex

Congratulations Mike, Priaptor and the "Select" few who are going to enjoy this wonderful machine, I´m sure I express the general sentiment here as to how lucky we are to be able to read about your experiences with it. I for one think the words "future proof" should bring peace of mind regarding your investment and take you out of the DAC race since sonically there seems to be no higher mountain to climb. The design is MUCH improved, It´s a good looking DAC and MSB has probably realized that at this level you not only have to sound like your price mandates, you have to look like it too.

Priaptor

I know you are using the SGM. Are you upsampling with HQPlayer to the Select II. While I have never used the SGM (although I was thinking of it for my T&A DSD DAC which is part of my headphone system, which consists of the T&A, Cavalli Liquid Gold and HD800S upsampling to DSD512 with HQPlayer which is MARVELOUS), I did do some extensive experimentation of HQPlayer on my MSB V. The best I ultimately heard HQPlayer sound on my MSB V was just using HQPlayer as a player, applying NO filters and letting the stream come in unfettered by HQPlayer.

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Hi Howie,

In this "getting to know" the Select II stage, we have the SGM at Mike's delivering bit perfect to the Select II. We are trying various bit perfect configurations in our workshop in Holland using a new Metrum Adagio as the test DAC. There a lot of variables to try out both on the hardware side, on the OS side and Player configuration to get the best sounding bit perfect delivery for the Select 2. In our development group, we are fighting over who is going to visit Mike's to test the various configurations.

As Mike gains further insight in to the sonics of different formats and sample rates, then we will propose some format conversion or upsampling strategies that could be interesting. 6 months ago, I would not have been optimistic about the SGM and it's software being able to deliver an interesting improvement in sonics to the Select 2, but there has been a big uptick in SQ of the SGM package the last few months.

Jussi Laako is continually pushing the envelope on his processing algorithms and we know there is a new family of filters coming in the not too distant future