You might want to consider a demo as well with the MasterBuilt Ultra USB. You might just have a change of thought
MSB Select II arrival
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
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You might want to consider a demo as well with the MasterBuilt Ultra USB. You might just have a change of thought
Thanks for the recommendation!
Just went to their website. The pricing of MasterBuilt Performance Series usb cable is similar to Vertere HB but their top series are Wow!
Hope that there will be a dealer in HK soon. Currently the nearest one is in Singapore.
Steve, what cables did you compare the MasterBuilt Ultra USB to? As I learn more about digital, I am fascinated that differences in USB cables can be so profound. Also, there are guys who have very strong opinions about the inherent problems with the noise of USB. Is this the preferred digital connection in your system? It doesn't seem like you have these issues with noise.
+1.
I had in my folder: Kimber, Ridge Street design Alethia, Totaldac, MIT....but, in my system, Curious USB cable is better in every parameters.
Peter,
I think that USB servers and dacs are possibly executing the USB standard is various ways, which possibly changes the context of these cables and makes them more a part of the sound than they ought to be. witness all the 'aids' on the market to 'assist' a USB cable to work better. so that whole digital interface question is not mature. and there appears to be discoveries as we go along as to what combination of features gives the most significant lift.
which is why my intentions were to not go down this digital cable road until I settled on a particular dac, which I've done, and then settle on a choice of interfaces (USB or Ethernet), which I've not done. I've now opened this can of worms before I likely should have.
there is nothing like cable wars to get the blood running.
Too bad I can't convince you or Priaptor to try the MB ULTRA USB cable Mike because I know that cable will take your system ( any system for that matter) to a level you don't even know exists. If you have the Light Harmonic Lightspeed what a perfect opportunity to compare them.
You might find it revelatory Mike.
Steve,
I am game to try anything. Just want to go through the iterations I have and find the best interface and player. Still waiting to try the renderer when available and see how that compares to the USB in general before I go nuts on cables.
Howie
Suffice it to say that after swearing I would not get back into the cable game my entire system is now wired with Master Built Ultra cable and I will never look back. These are lifers in my system and will never be sold unless they can better their Ultra series. The Ultra USB cable has an MSRP of $12K. I feel confident in saying that anyone could pick these out 100% of the time in a blind test. This single USB cable has reconnected me with the digital side of my system. Previously in the past 2 years I have been listening to vinyl exclusively. I am completely smitten by these cables and I have said here on WBF is not to hear them in some one else's system but in your own in order to understand what they do to your system. I would be surprised if you were anything but stunned as to what they can do in everyone's system.
Also the question about noise with this cable is a non issue for me. I hear none. What I hear is a huge sound stage with so much more information. They are completely non colored theyvsre so free of noise that I promise you that will be turning down the volume in your system as a result. I would be curious in a head to head with this cable vs Ethernet.
For me, I'm only interested in one thing from Mike and his report on the Select II
I'll wait a few dozen pages more, and further evolution of his system
I'll wait until he's maxxed out the Select w the Powerbases, whatever server or Ethernet renderer he deems best, whatever USB or Ethernet connection he feels most optimal, all loaded on Taiko Tanas
At that point I'll want to know from him whether this pre eminent SOTA dac in the marketplace, maxxed to the max, w serious investment put into it (maybe 30-50% more than his analog front end), matches or exceeds his vinyl or tape
Not whether it gets close, or v close, or means he can listen to digital all day
My Eera cdp gets close to my vinyl, and I can listen to it all day, as does the SGM/Dac8 I'm v familiar with it, but there still remains a deficit to analog
This is all nearly four decades on from the advent of digital (will be once Mike goes thru these maxxed out options), and it won't be good enough if it falls short for proponents to say digital still needs "catch up time"
Four decades of evolution, serious money and R&D thrown at digital, cost no object bleeding edge tech, and ability to squeeze the digital lemon means this optimal solution needs to play analog at its own game for me to feel Mike's experience is anything other than "digital is getting closer"
Getting closer at these exhalted levels doesn't mean that much
Matching or exceeding, at all aspects that vinyl is pre eminent like verve, density, air, dynamics, is all that really matters
Otherwise in 2017 plus, if this maxxed out maxxed out digital solution still can't outmuscle a format and tech years and years past its established optimal age, then that will really be saying something
Sorry to put you on the spot Mike LOL, this post is meant in good humour
But as someone who is going to places v few if any others are doing w your digital, and as someone who's flown the flag for analog as pre eminent all these years, I'm looking forward to your final verdicts in months to come
The words "it's close, v close, but in the final analysis, vinyl still..." or "guys, I never thought I'd say it, but digital finally..." will be v interesting to read
No pressure, Mike
I'll wait a few dozen pages more, and further evolution of his system
I'll wait until he's maxxed out the Select w the Powerbases, whatever server or Ethernet renderer he deems best, whatever USB or Ethernet connection he feels most optimal, all loaded on Taiko Tanas
At that point I'll want to know from him whether this pre eminent SOTA dac in the marketplace, maxxed to the max, w serious investment put into it (maybe 30-50% more than his analog front end), matches or exceeds his vinyl or tape
Not whether it gets close, or v close, or means he can listen to digital all day
My Eera cdp gets close to my vinyl, and I can listen to it all day, as does the SGM/Dac8 I'm v familiar with it, but there still remains a deficit to analog
This is all nearly four decades on from the advent of digital (will be once Mike goes thru these maxxed out options), and it won't be good enough if it falls short for proponents to say digital still needs "catch up time"
Four decades of evolution, serious money and R&D thrown at digital, cost no object bleeding edge tech, and ability to squeeze the digital lemon means this optimal solution needs to play analog at its own game for me to feel Mike's experience is anything other than "digital is getting closer"
Getting closer at these exhalted levels doesn't mean that much
Matching or exceeding, at all aspects that vinyl is pre eminent like verve, density, air, dynamics, is all that really matters
Otherwise in 2017 plus, if this maxxed out maxxed out digital solution still can't outmuscle a format and tech years and years past its established optimal age, then that will really be saying something
Sorry to put you on the spot Mike LOL, this post is meant in good humour
But as someone who is going to places v few if any others are doing w your digital, and as someone who's flown the flag for analog as pre eminent all these years, I'm looking forward to your final verdicts in months to come
The words "it's close, v close, but in the final analysis, vinyl still..." or "guys, I never thought I'd say it, but digital finally..." will be v interesting to read
No pressure, Mike
Although the results are always implementation dependent, and generalization from our experiences is not possible, there is an important point to consider - USB is half-duplex and Ethernet is full-duplex. This implies that a USB link is more complex in terms of receiving - sending electronics, as the same points are being commuted as receivers or senders. Theoretically a proper Ethernet implementation can be more noise free than a USB link. However, IMHO high-end designers have now much greater experience with USB than Ethernet - I expect large progress in this more recent area in the forthcoming months. Why don't we have an Ethernet output SGM or a Ehternet-Ethernet microRendu?
Honestly, I find it incomprehensible that the SMG has no AES/EBU output which is considered by many digital designers the superior solution when it comes to connecting a DAC. The Baetis server has that output.
Ked, 45s always superior to 33s, certainly in terms of bass and lack of end groove distortion
My point was really that if the final result of this Select experience is yet another dac that's gets close to vinyl, maybe the closest yet, but still can't do those magic things that good vinyl is STILL so good at, then it'll really only be of interest as a trial that confirms what vinylphiles have always contended
Ked, you know what it was like at Bill's enjoying and complimenting on how affable digital was on the SGM on GG and Dac8 that day, but the moment Bill put Nirvana on his Kuzma, we were all transported
Nothing I've read in Mike's ongoing reports suggests the Select II will "transport" him like his vinyl does
At this stage in digital's evolution and refinement and this level of tech and price, w all the arguments we have from digital's proponents about it's superiority, shouldn't the Select be further along than "hot on the heels" of analog?
My point was really that if the final result of this Select experience is yet another dac that's gets close to vinyl, maybe the closest yet, but still can't do those magic things that good vinyl is STILL so good at, then it'll really only be of interest as a trial that confirms what vinylphiles have always contended
Ked, you know what it was like at Bill's enjoying and complimenting on how affable digital was on the SGM on GG and Dac8 that day, but the moment Bill put Nirvana on his Kuzma, we were all transported
Nothing I've read in Mike's ongoing reports suggests the Select II will "transport" him like his vinyl does
At this stage in digital's evolution and refinement and this level of tech and price, w all the arguments we have from digital's proponents about it's superiority, shouldn't the Select be further along than "hot on the heels" of analog?
IMHO AES/EBU can not be considered as a superior solution unless you have a separate line for an external common clock. Does the Baetis server have a double AES/EBU output?
'incomprehensible'?
with such passion I assume you've done the comparison between these two servers. or at least personally compared AES/EBU with USB extensively to form that opinion.
please tell us about it.
or are you just stirring it up?
Ok, you have point. Perhaps my statement was a bit too strong. Yet if I am not mistaken, USB connections are not inherently designed for uninterrupted datastreams that would more easily allow for perfect timing as required in audio. Rather, they send info in packets. Maybe the SGM server circumvents this somehow. But perhaps our local digital engineers can weigh in on this issue.
Also, from:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/baetis-reference-media-server/
thanks Al.
I must admit ignorance about the underlying technology myself. techno speak from manufacturers is cheap, but really how does it compare head to head?
I just follow my ears. but if someone has listening feedback on SGM competitors that suggest a performance advantage to another interface I'd love to hear about it.
To us techies, the fact that USB is riddled with noise is a well-known fact. There is an extensive wiki page on USB, which explains its entire complex operation, though it does not discuss noise characteristics the way we'd want to. But if a DAC designer found ways to contain the noise, good on them - but I'd like to see real data; talk is cheap.
You're welcome, Mike. You are right, just pointing out technical issues is insufficient for assessing quality (implementation is key), and listening results are the thing that really matters. I'd also be curious about actual listening comparisons.
A review I read re the Innuous Zenith Mk2 streamer (a unit that together w the Aqua La Voce Mk2 dac I'm v interested in) pretty much said the USB was as good as, or better than, the Ethernet, and the reviewer was absolutely not expecting this
What do we always say about stellar/over performing gear? Forget the theory, it's the implementation that matters
What do we always say about stellar/over performing gear? Forget the theory, it's the implementation that matters
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