Reference 5 pre amp

magichifi

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Aug 21, 2016
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Hi does anyone know what the up grade from Ref 5 to Ref 5 se is and if so does any one know who could do the work in the UK.
 

tdh888

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Nov 4, 2010
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Hi does anyone know what the up grade from Ref 5 to Ref 5 se is and if so does any one know who could do the work in the UK.

Additional P.S. capacitors w/c you will notice in the 5SE in w/c an additional circuit board was added on the left side ( vertically ) when your facing the faceplate . The faceplate was likewise replaced w/ the same appearance as of the REF Anniversary. There are new round buttons as well . Accdg to some who have had them this upgrade the performance is much closer to the REF ANNIVERSARY than when it was a plain REF 5 and it widens the gap in performance from the REF 3. I have an original 5SE but have not compared it yet w/ the REF Anniversary.
 

Argonaut

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Jul 30, 2013
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Contact Pedro at Absolute Sounds, he is ARC's European distributer and he can arrange to have the work completed by the UK specialist tech, you would have to ship the pre to him in London.

I used to run with a Ref5se whilst a friend was running his 40 Anniversary and the difference in SQ between the two is not subtle and is quite a gulf. I currently run with a REF10 and the evolution in SQ over the Ref5se is considerable.
 

microstrip

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Contact Pedro at Absolute Sounds, he is ARC's European distributer and he can arrange to have the work completed by the UK specialist tech, you would have to ship the pre to him in London.

I used to run with a Ref5se whilst a friend was running his 40 Anniversary and the difference in SQ between the two is not subtle and is quite a gulf. I currently run with a REF10 and the evolution in SQ over the Ref5se is considerable.

The upgrade from 5 to SE is complex and and expensive - disinclining an extra power supply board and new mechanical and cosmetic parts. Considering the price of used REF5 SE it is better deal selling the 5 and getting an used SE. The REF40 is one of the best used bargains in the high-end, they now sell for less than a new REF5 SE or REF6. The differences in sound quality between a REF 40 and 10 is not large, they share the same signal and power supply PCB boards, although the REF10 does not include the giant Teflon output capacitors.
 

Lee

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Feb 3, 2011
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I can tell you the sonic upgrade between the 5 and 5SE is significant.
 

bonzo75

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hi if you are likely looking for a pre to drive your Mephisto into your Apogees? I was no AR fan till I heard the ref 10 at your friend's and compared it to Ypsilon PST1 and older Dartzeel. Since he has the older Antileon, and if you have checked the impedance match to make sure the AR can drive a Gryphon, you might be better off waiting for an used AR ref 40 as it's close to the ref 10 at much lower price in the used market, as microstrip suggested. The ref 10 was easily the best, and most suited to the apogee sound of muscle, bass, large soundstage and slam. I am considering that or VTL 7.5 if I go the scintilla route, VTL more because there is a possibility it can drive SS amps better
 

analog brother

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Jan 20, 2014
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the two top vtl preamps do indeed drive ss amps easily, including gryphon.
the arc 'should' be ok, but never tried it.
has anybody tried the ref 6? is it a big enough difference to the 5se to warrant a move? or better to step up to ref 10 or 40 jahre?
 

asiufy

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analog brother,

I haven't compared the new ARC preamps to the previous generation, but I did compare the 6 to the 10 on the same amps...
My impression is that the REF 6 retains a little extra "tubeness", that bloom that is so characteristic. It is smooth yet dynamic, with an unbelievable soundstage. In other words, the perfect complement for beefy solid state amps.
The REF 10 is quite a bit more neutral, more refined, and with even more explosive dynamics. My guess is that this would be the perfect pairing for tube amps, if you want to keep the overall result relatively neutral.


cheers,
alex
 

analog brother

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Jan 20, 2014
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thank you for that, alex.
i love the soundstage on the 5se. hard to imagine it could get much better.....
the ref 6 is so alluring, but i'm not really a fan of the new looks.
hope the they don't change the ref 10 in the same fashion when it get's refreshened.
 

microstrip

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(...) I am considering that or VTL 7.5 if I go the scintilla route, VTL more because there is a possibility it can drive SS amps better

Just to tell that I have listened to impressively good sound in a friend system using a VTL 7.5 driving a solid state conrad johnson premier 350. It sounded so good that when my friend got upgraditis some years ago I bought his premier 350, that was playing again in my system this evening - surely after a week of burn-in loaded with 8 ohm power resistors!
 

bonzo75

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Just to tell that I have listened to impressively good sound in a friend system using a VTL 7.5 driving a solid state conrad johnson premier 350. It sounded so good that when my friend got upgraditis some years ago I bought his premier 350, that was playing again in my system this evening - surely after a week of burn-in loaded with 8 ohm power resistors!

Thanks. What impressed me about the VTL is the way it drives Marty's Spectrals. I have compared it to Luxman pre driving Mephisto into TAD at a Spanish dealer's and I don't think it matches the AR Ref 10 in the positives of the latter, but I haven't compared the two directly so now I am giving VTL the benefit of doubt that it will drive SS better. Might change if compared
 

magichifi

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2016
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ref 10

Thanks. What impressed me about the VTL is the way it drives Marty's Spectrals. I have compared it to Luxman pre driving Mephisto into TAD at a Spanish dealer's and I don't think it matches the AR Ref 10 in the positives of the latter, but I haven't compared the two directly so now I am giving VTL the benefit of doubt that it will drive SS better. Might change if compared

Hello Bonzo not sure which friend of ours has the ref 10 as I would like to hear it with a sold state amp. I'm running scintillas at the moment and loving them, could do with selling my duettas if you know any one for them
 

christoph

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Dec 11, 2015
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Hi magic

Hello Bonzo not sure which friend of ours has the ref 10 as I would like to hear it with a sold state amp. I'm running scintillas at the moment and loving them, could do with selling my duettas if you know any one for them

Can you please share some sentences in the Apogee Scintilla thread with us?
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Hello Bonzo not sure which friend of ours has the ref 10 as I would like to hear it with a sold state amp. I'm running scintillas at the moment and loving them, could do with selling my duettas if you know any one for them

Kevin
 

magichifi

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2016
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Sheffield
Hi took bozo's advice and bought a Reference 40 it's just amazing I guess it just sounds real with so much control in the base and that mid range just awesome. Thanks for the advice it will be a while before this amp is swapped.
 

bonzo75

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Hi took bozo's advice and bought a Reference 40 it's just amazing I guess it just sounds real with so much control in the base and that mid range just awesome. Thanks for the advice it will be a while before this amp is swapped.

Great to hear. Do you have the scintilla now or still the duetta?
 

magichifi

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2016
33
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Sheffield
I sold the Duettas a while ago and bought a pair of Scintillas that Jon had fitted new ribbons and base panels to. Jon is rebuilding a pair of Scintillas for me using quite a lot of new ideas and materials don't think he is far from completing them, really looking forward to getting them, will let you know what they sound like compared to the standard ones.
 

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