My new Micro Seiki SX 8000 MK II :-)

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
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Cologne, Germany
After having seen the great TechDas Airforce 1 presentation, enriched with AirForce 0 parts , it was clear, that my next turntable will continue the story of Micro Seiki in my home. The original idea was, to buy an Airforce III, but in Munich I has the chance to listen to all available TechDas tuntables and the AFIII was not satisfying in comparison. Great voices, but not the substance, I would expect from such a heavy turntable concept. But maybe I was only looking for a reason to not! have the control unit on a classical Micro Seiki turntable Design.

So I was happy, that I got the opportunity to buy one of the three Micro Seiki SX 8000 MKII turntables, which were exported to Germany, so with the right voltage for me and with now transport risk.

Today we (my wife as well) travelled to see the 8000 MkII in reality, unfortunately, the unit ist packed since years, no chance to listen, to try to control and check at all. So a real full risk purchase from a unknown person. Normally I would never do it in such way, but the 8000 MkII is so rare, I have taken the risk.

Fortunatley everything works fine, just little things, like no belt was available.

So I am missusing another belt from a turntable in my collection, realizing the big difference in sonics already, habe to look for a proper belt!

I built today a real Japanese player, fitting a new Ikeda 407 Cr (with VTA lifter) and a unused SAEC 407/23 Tonearm to the 8000 MKII.

For the first trials , I just fitted Audio technica ART 7 and a AT 33 PTG II.

In the near future an Ikeda KAI and a Transfiguration Proteus is planned as cartridge. Proteus already arrived, KAI to come soon.

The 8000 MKII was coming together with the Micro Seiki BA 600 Base, unfortunately (for me) the base is integrated in a full turntable rack, which was custom built from the German Distributor for the first customer of the 8000 MkII.

This turntable Rack does not fit my room in any way, so as a start the 8000 MKII has to feel comfortable on a HRS M3x (a 6 feet version to meet the requirements of the heavy and small turntable)

The first impressions are very promising, having in mind, that both tonearms had zero listening hours to so they need to get some hours on the wiring.

I will do this first hours with different AT systems and than finally I will fit the KAI and the Proteus, may be also a dynamic Ikeda TTS for some Rock vinyl.

So far I am very happy, that I have taken the decision to buy such a Hifi classic, the Micro Seiki SX 8000 MKII with Air Bearing and Platter Vacuum technology in a brutal heavy chassis gives me the substance in the bass I was looking for. Voices are also perfect , even with the ART7 cartridge I am enjoying the new level of performance compared to my former SME 20, SME 30, STST Vidocq or VPI TNT derivatives.

I will continue this thread, whenever I try something , like the so far not yet connected great SAEC 407/23 tonearm .


Juergen

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bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Wow congrats looking awesome
 

Tango

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Congratulation. A classic always gives you peace of mind.
 

Steve Williams

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thekong

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May 10, 2012
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Hi Juergen, congratulation on the 8000 MK II, definitely one exceptional turntable! One of my friends has a MK II and another has a MK I, both excellent! Poor me only have a 777 Air :(

Regarding the belt, usually I like the sound of non-stretchable (or minimum stretchable) belt! The stock Micro belt is already much less stretchable than the general rubber belts. However, you may also want to try Micro’s string (made with Kevlar I believe), which offers a slightly different sound to the turntable.

Enjoy!
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
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Congrats.

One of the best tables ever made.
 

gian60

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2016
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Dear Juergen,
also i was interesting to buy AFIII with Elite,
can you tell me more about it?
So you was not satisfied in comparison with AF1?

Thanks
Gianluigi
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
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Wow - enjoy.

I also very much concur with your views of AFIII - it doesn't approach AFII or I imho. You did the right thing :D
 

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
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may I ask you a question to the Micro Seiki specialists:

Since a week I am proudly owning the Micro Seiki SX8000 MKII. This one is without AX10G Tonearme Base, so I am fitting 2 ofthe standard Micro Seiki G series tonearm bases.

The 8000 MKII has 4 adjustable feets, but only 3 of them can be interchanged.

My 8000 MKII has 2 feets in a length, that allow the fitment of a tonearmbase.. 1 has a length, that its end is flat with the main chassis.

My Question is, if there were feets in difference length existing? so a long version for tonearmbase fitting and short for not?
Or is it all the same feet and I am unable to find the miracle mechanism to extend the length of the feet assembly?

I would love to fit a third tonearm, as I like cartridge rolling most, while listening to music.

Thank you for giving me a hint in the right direction,

Juergen
 

shakti

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May 9, 2015
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to answer the questions abbout AF 1, 2, 3
I never heard the three in a real 1:1 comparison, as others did, so my opinion about the performance of the three is coming from listening separately with known gear.

I like AF 1! Full Stop!. So all different derivatives (different upper platter) I listened to AF 1, it was a great performance, But AF 1 sounds to me very modern, means the turntable has a high resolution in the frequency ends. Listening to AF 1 means to me , focus is always concentrated on the extremes. In avarage, I like to listen to AF 1 very loud :)

AF2 for me is slightly different, reminds me (please see this as a real personal point of view and related to the 2 units, I had the chance to listen to) more to the classic bigger Micro Seiki sonic signature, with the energy coming from the bass and good 3D staging.

AF3 is for me a bigger step back to "normal" The AF3 has a nice midrange , full of energy, but misses the substance an AF2 or AF1 can do.
I can accept the compromise chosen, but I love the bass substance from a real heavy turntable, which the AF3 cannot give to me.

The overall performance of the AF3 is great, I was close to buy one!, specially as I like cartridge rolling on different arm, fitted on to one turntable.
Unfortunately I cannot afford AF2 or AF1 , as I like to have a good arm and Cartridge combination as well.

The final decision to go for the SX 8000 MKII was also driven by the extrem high prices for additional tonearm bases for AF3 .
Original G Series for Micro Seiki turntables are a real bargain in comparison, so I already have bought 6 of the G series bases, which gives me a lot of freedom in choosing the best arm .

Listening to the Ikeda 407 arm, combined with the Transfguration Proteus gives me exactly, what I was looking for. The substance and control in the bass is great, so the 3D staging, which needs a rocksolid bass. Listening to a big piano underlines the capability of the SX 8000 MkII.

I am now interested to listen to the FR66s tonearm, the MAX 282 and some others, so looking forward to interesting times with this turntable.

But first thing will be, to try out the Ikeda KAI cartridge in the Ikeda 407 arm., the should work very nicely.

I know, there are turntables out there, which will do it better, but this is just a view of them and the most of them will have a bigger foot print, which makes the placement difficult to me.
 

shakti

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May 9, 2015
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BruceD

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Great Choice Shatki--I have compared the MS SX 8000 with the AF TT.

The Micro Seiki was better :)

BruceD
 

microstrip

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for all friends of the Micro Seiki SX 8000 MkII,
this link will show you all the pictures of the inside of the turntable too:

http://amp8.com/amp-etc/record/micro/sx8000_2.htm

Thanks - very interesting pictures. You are a lucky person - no custom integrated circuits at all in the motor controller, just standard electronic parts. In the event of a problem it will be very easy to service. Apparently it looks like a two phase driven synchronous motor with platter encoder feedback - similar to the Studer A80 capstan motor!
 

shakti

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May 9, 2015
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I have compared the data of AF3 and SX 8000 MkII so often, that I like to share :

Chassis (main frame) weight & size:

- TechDas Airforce 3 : 18kg =>312mm(W)x360mm(D)x160(H), aluminium
- SX 8000 MKII : 35kg => 310mm x 310mm x 100mm, zinc


Platter :

- TechDas Airforce 3 : 9kg, aluminium
- SX 8000 MKII : 28kg, steel

the weight of AF3 does compare with the Micro Seiki RX 1500 type.
Weight is not everything, but mostly it translates into bass resolution and quietness .


tonarmbase:

- TechDas Airforce 3 :wood

- SX 8000 MKII : brass

many modern tonearms do like wooden tonearmbases, specially they like Ebony Wood..., but for 12' the most wooden bases do not work properly, so techdas added vibration damping to the 12' base

historical high mass tonearms do like heavy metal tonearm bases, like heavy brass.

I do like tonearms like Fidelity Research, SAEC, Micro Seiki MAX, Ikeda , so a wooden base is not my preferred choice.

A heavy tonearm base needs a heavy turntable, a simple CAD/CAM produced Aluminium chassis would not meet my needs and requirements.

So I did my decision.
 

awsmone

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Apr 6, 2014
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I think more important than weight is speed stability accuracy and rumble through the groove

Hifi news and record did comparison between AF 1 2 and 3, with quite significant differences between all three

Interestingly the AF 2 is more speed accurate without the cyclical added noise of the AF 1 and almost the same rumble in groove noise
 

microstrip

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shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
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Cologne, Germany
@ Microstrip
For me the price is not the key point. It is the performance I can buy for my money, and the residual value if the good I buy after some years of usage.
I believe, if it comes to residual value, the SX 8000 MkII is a good investment, and the performance satisfies too.
The AF 3 sells in Germany for 25k eur, an used SX 8000 MKII you can see in the same region, if it is a 100v or 110 version. To get one of the three original 220v German versions was a great luck for me. So I accepted a premium.


@awsmone
Back to performance , I agree to awsmone, that weight is not everything, but all developments from Nishikawa San show a hierarchy in weight (chassis and platter) and platter inertia, followed by material composition and finally energy management by air.

let us have a look to AF turntables again:

AF 3:
chassis weight 18 kg (or 21 , depending of the brochure)
platter weight 9kg
both aluminium

AF 2:
chassis weight: 33kg
platter weight: 10kg
both aluminium

AF1:
chassis weight: 43kg , two aluminium types
platter weight : 19kg base platter, upper platter weight depending on material between 4kg and 11kg), so total between 23kg and 30kg
base platter stainless steel, upper platter Aluminium, Titanium, Tungsten available

The Micro Seiki SX turntables have a two component platter structure, as AF1, it is possible to interchange materials as well, so a brass upper platter was common for some versions. SX 8000 MKII platter (similar to SZ-1) was the Micro Seiki platter with the highest Inertia (3,5t/cm), unfortunately TechDas do not publish the inertia of the AF turntables.
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
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Hello Juergen,

I can probably help you with what you need but I'm not sure if I understand what you're looking for correctly. Are you looking for a 3rd arm post?

david

may I ask you a question to the Micro Seiki specialists:

Since a week I am proudly owning the Micro Seiki SX8000 MKII. This one is without AX10G Tonearme Base, so I am fitting 2 ofthe standard Micro Seiki G series tonearm bases.

The 8000 MKII has 4 adjustable feets, but only 3 of them can be interchanged.

My 8000 MKII has 2 feets in a length, that allow the fitment of a tonearmbase.. 1 has a length, that its end is flat with the main chassis.

My Question is, if there were feets in difference length existing? so a long version for tonearmbase fitting and short for not?
Or is it all the same feet and I am unable to find the miracle mechanism to extend the length of the feet assembly?

I would love to fit a third tonearm, as I like cartridge rolling most, while listening to music.

Thank you for giving me a hint in the right direction,

Juergen
 

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
1,437
2,383
480
Cologne, Germany
Hello David,
this is exactly, what I am looking for!
as I like to fit a third arm to the SX 8000 MKII !
Juergen
 

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