Hi guys
First a teeny tiny bit of background. ...
We all come to this hobby from different starting points and with different frames of reference. My first system arrived after a school holiday spent working in a large canteen to earn the money, and a cancelled holiday with some drinkin buddies who never made it to the level of 'friends'.
So as a result of the best decision I ever made, over that summer of 86 I assembled an original Rega3, AT95e cartridge, Arcam alpha plus integrated amp and a pair of Mordaunt Short ms10 bookshelf speakers on Sound organisation wall brackets.
And it was good...Pink Floyd, the Doors and Peter Gabriel blew the minds of any poor soul I dragged up for a listen. I got really into the blues from Robert Johnson and Elmore James to Muddy Waters and Ry Cooder. A really tight, musical sound that just drew you in and made you cancel all your plans for the rest of the day.
Spool on a few years and life had certainly been interesting. ..maybe a little too interesting as that beloved first system was stolen from the Brixton squat I was living in. By now my taste had expanded into reggae and dub and early dance music like Depthcharge and I had been exposed to proper bass courtesy of reggae sound systems like Jah Shaka, Joey Jay and Channel One. I then got a job working in a hifi shop owned by Malcolm Blockley, the originator of NAD and designer of the classic 3020 amp.
We sold, among others Musical Fidelity amps and TDL transmission line speakers which then formed the nucleus of my system for the next decade, source was a Systemdek tt.
Then as I grew tired of the slow, out of phase but extended bass from the TDL's I finally upgraded to my first true high end system, a pair of Alon iv's driven by a Krell ksa100, Musical Fidelity f25 pre and a Cranfield Rock tt. Wow. This was something special, open baffle mid and tops with a sealed 12 inch bass box this system was a keeper, and it kept me happy for another ten years as I joined the Exodus sound system and threw free parties and festivals in the Luton area.
So why have I tested your patience with this long winded preamble? Well some of our esteemed forum members are musicians, some engineers and others producers and all have their own frames of reference. For me it is a tight and musical mid range, well controlled treble throwing a big soundstage and most importantly, masses of subterranean bass like you get from a 25k rig in a warehouse or a reggae sound system.
Fast forward to today ?
After a decade or more in the inner city I'm back where I belong...the middle of bloody nowhere. With no neighbours for a mile in each direction and nowt but my beasties for company. To ordinary folk that might sound a bit tedious but for blokes like us that sounds like a version of heaven, completely off the lead anytime of day
So I moved in a city lad but within a year or two I realised I had made a big mistake with my room orientation. I had done the city thing and set my system up in front of a solid wall firing out. But this meant I had my back to a lovely view out of my windows so I turned things around and positioned myself looking out, with speakers in front of big windows firing inwards
And you guys can no doubt predict what happened; a noticeable drop off in bass from my Stella Utopias. Positioning them became a huge challenge involving much maths and trial and error and eventually having to accept that to thunder like it had before my system would need some help
When I bought my home my plan had been to build a pair of infinitely baffled subwoofers into the structure and so had designed the building to withstand their output.
But with IB subs not being an off-the-shelf item and my self confidence as a diy-er non existent I had to consider what was available on the market. Focal had just released a Sub Utopia, but this had two drawbacks to my way of seeing things; they had the same 15 inch electromagnetic bass drivers as my Stellas, impressive in their tone and output but to my ears not plumbing the depths like I wanted, and requiring off board amplification which, considering the size of the type of class a behemoth needed to do each one justice, was going to demand an awful lot of floor space.
So active it was....
First contender was a Paradigm Sub2.
Not bad, very powerful but didn't really do a good job of integrating with my main speakers. Also I could hear that it wasn't really able to pressurise the whole of my room.
(8m x 7m with a concrete floor and french windows behind speakers)
The supplier (Nick Wearmouth @ HomeSound Edinburgh ) had suggested on first seeing my room and system that a pair of Velodyne DD18 + would be more musical, especially since the Velodyne room EQ system was more sophisticated.
So I traded the Sub2 in for a pair of DD18 +, and now we were really starting to get somewhere.
When we analysed the room we found that the whole of the far end, the end where my speakers are positioned, is essentially a suck out or null.
So we put the subs about halfway down the room and either side in pair of measured sweet spots.
And now we are really shaking some trousers, you probably couldn't ask for more bass. And yet....when pointed directly at the listening position there was too much energy so we had them on either side of the room and rotated so firing in towards each other. So basically squeezing from the sides, a sensation I found a little odd; you could feel that the pressure wave was moving from a different source and in a different direction to the signal from the main speakers. The effect was subtle but noticeable.
So then I thought...if the subs are too much in the sweet spot, why not move back to the null alongside my main speakers but use another pair of overcome the null?
And what about using a different sized pair from the same manufacturer? Could I achieve something like a choir or orchestral effect, with the same note being 'sung' by a different but complementary voice? Since this was how the Exodus rig functioned I thought it was worth a try, as did Nick my installer.
So he brought round a pair of DD15 + on sale or return and we built stereo bass stacks either side of my main speakers, each stack comprising a DD15 + sitting on a DD18 , daisy chained together and eq'd as a group. And sold, no return.
Ok now I was happy, the bass was tight, musical, truly extended but also properly integrated with my mains. It does not sound like there are subs in the room, it sounds as though my Stellas have grown a pair. And tbh they were already endowed like my male Ridgeback
So that's where we're up to now, but I would say there is still more to come. I like the idea of going three high either side to even out the response height- wise, and I could see another pair going in the previous sweet spots for a bit of added awesomeness, so Nick and I are in deep discussions about what sizes to go for. At first I was drawn towards a pair of DD12+ atop the bass stacks, but now I am leaning towards another pair of 18's as I feel the Stellas probably have 12's covered
However it's remaining academic for the next few months as the weather has been fine, prompting me to switch my focus for the summer to finishing digging my amphitheatre and building outdoor enclosures for my outdoor speakers, while every now and then Nick drops by with different software versions to tweak the setup. He has just acquired and is learning his way around a Trinnov room eq system and from what he says, I strongly suspect that may be my next purchase.
So to the residents of WBF forum I have to say thank you; I have learned an enormous amount from reading the experiences of guys on here with everything from Qsubs and Thor's-hammer to 'The Swarm', among which is the gem that multiple decent subs can often outperform one or two mega ones
What I would like to know is....what do you guys think of Trinnov?
(Ok once you've had a lie down after reading my missive)
Luv gav ?
(Infinitely baffled )
First a teeny tiny bit of background. ...
We all come to this hobby from different starting points and with different frames of reference. My first system arrived after a school holiday spent working in a large canteen to earn the money, and a cancelled holiday with some drinkin buddies who never made it to the level of 'friends'.
So as a result of the best decision I ever made, over that summer of 86 I assembled an original Rega3, AT95e cartridge, Arcam alpha plus integrated amp and a pair of Mordaunt Short ms10 bookshelf speakers on Sound organisation wall brackets.
And it was good...Pink Floyd, the Doors and Peter Gabriel blew the minds of any poor soul I dragged up for a listen. I got really into the blues from Robert Johnson and Elmore James to Muddy Waters and Ry Cooder. A really tight, musical sound that just drew you in and made you cancel all your plans for the rest of the day.
Spool on a few years and life had certainly been interesting. ..maybe a little too interesting as that beloved first system was stolen from the Brixton squat I was living in. By now my taste had expanded into reggae and dub and early dance music like Depthcharge and I had been exposed to proper bass courtesy of reggae sound systems like Jah Shaka, Joey Jay and Channel One. I then got a job working in a hifi shop owned by Malcolm Blockley, the originator of NAD and designer of the classic 3020 amp.
We sold, among others Musical Fidelity amps and TDL transmission line speakers which then formed the nucleus of my system for the next decade, source was a Systemdek tt.
Then as I grew tired of the slow, out of phase but extended bass from the TDL's I finally upgraded to my first true high end system, a pair of Alon iv's driven by a Krell ksa100, Musical Fidelity f25 pre and a Cranfield Rock tt. Wow. This was something special, open baffle mid and tops with a sealed 12 inch bass box this system was a keeper, and it kept me happy for another ten years as I joined the Exodus sound system and threw free parties and festivals in the Luton area.
So why have I tested your patience with this long winded preamble? Well some of our esteemed forum members are musicians, some engineers and others producers and all have their own frames of reference. For me it is a tight and musical mid range, well controlled treble throwing a big soundstage and most importantly, masses of subterranean bass like you get from a 25k rig in a warehouse or a reggae sound system.
Fast forward to today ?
After a decade or more in the inner city I'm back where I belong...the middle of bloody nowhere. With no neighbours for a mile in each direction and nowt but my beasties for company. To ordinary folk that might sound a bit tedious but for blokes like us that sounds like a version of heaven, completely off the lead anytime of day
So I moved in a city lad but within a year or two I realised I had made a big mistake with my room orientation. I had done the city thing and set my system up in front of a solid wall firing out. But this meant I had my back to a lovely view out of my windows so I turned things around and positioned myself looking out, with speakers in front of big windows firing inwards
And you guys can no doubt predict what happened; a noticeable drop off in bass from my Stella Utopias. Positioning them became a huge challenge involving much maths and trial and error and eventually having to accept that to thunder like it had before my system would need some help
When I bought my home my plan had been to build a pair of infinitely baffled subwoofers into the structure and so had designed the building to withstand their output.
But with IB subs not being an off-the-shelf item and my self confidence as a diy-er non existent I had to consider what was available on the market. Focal had just released a Sub Utopia, but this had two drawbacks to my way of seeing things; they had the same 15 inch electromagnetic bass drivers as my Stellas, impressive in their tone and output but to my ears not plumbing the depths like I wanted, and requiring off board amplification which, considering the size of the type of class a behemoth needed to do each one justice, was going to demand an awful lot of floor space.
So active it was....
First contender was a Paradigm Sub2.
Not bad, very powerful but didn't really do a good job of integrating with my main speakers. Also I could hear that it wasn't really able to pressurise the whole of my room.
(8m x 7m with a concrete floor and french windows behind speakers)
The supplier (Nick Wearmouth @ HomeSound Edinburgh ) had suggested on first seeing my room and system that a pair of Velodyne DD18 + would be more musical, especially since the Velodyne room EQ system was more sophisticated.
So I traded the Sub2 in for a pair of DD18 +, and now we were really starting to get somewhere.
When we analysed the room we found that the whole of the far end, the end where my speakers are positioned, is essentially a suck out or null.
So we put the subs about halfway down the room and either side in pair of measured sweet spots.
And now we are really shaking some trousers, you probably couldn't ask for more bass. And yet....when pointed directly at the listening position there was too much energy so we had them on either side of the room and rotated so firing in towards each other. So basically squeezing from the sides, a sensation I found a little odd; you could feel that the pressure wave was moving from a different source and in a different direction to the signal from the main speakers. The effect was subtle but noticeable.
So then I thought...if the subs are too much in the sweet spot, why not move back to the null alongside my main speakers but use another pair of overcome the null?
And what about using a different sized pair from the same manufacturer? Could I achieve something like a choir or orchestral effect, with the same note being 'sung' by a different but complementary voice? Since this was how the Exodus rig functioned I thought it was worth a try, as did Nick my installer.
So he brought round a pair of DD15 + on sale or return and we built stereo bass stacks either side of my main speakers, each stack comprising a DD15 + sitting on a DD18 , daisy chained together and eq'd as a group. And sold, no return.
Ok now I was happy, the bass was tight, musical, truly extended but also properly integrated with my mains. It does not sound like there are subs in the room, it sounds as though my Stellas have grown a pair. And tbh they were already endowed like my male Ridgeback
So that's where we're up to now, but I would say there is still more to come. I like the idea of going three high either side to even out the response height- wise, and I could see another pair going in the previous sweet spots for a bit of added awesomeness, so Nick and I are in deep discussions about what sizes to go for. At first I was drawn towards a pair of DD12+ atop the bass stacks, but now I am leaning towards another pair of 18's as I feel the Stellas probably have 12's covered
However it's remaining academic for the next few months as the weather has been fine, prompting me to switch my focus for the summer to finishing digging my amphitheatre and building outdoor enclosures for my outdoor speakers, while every now and then Nick drops by with different software versions to tweak the setup. He has just acquired and is learning his way around a Trinnov room eq system and from what he says, I strongly suspect that may be my next purchase.
So to the residents of WBF forum I have to say thank you; I have learned an enormous amount from reading the experiences of guys on here with everything from Qsubs and Thor's-hammer to 'The Swarm', among which is the gem that multiple decent subs can often outperform one or two mega ones
What I would like to know is....what do you guys think of Trinnov?
(Ok once you've had a lie down after reading my missive)
Luv gav ?
(Infinitely baffled )
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