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Thread: Another Apogee thread? You bet!

  1. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Sablon Audio View Post
    Is a cheap punt and can always be used elsewhere in your system such as in your dac if you don't like. Fwiw my tweeter caps are 3.9uf so the 0.01uf bypass cap represent just 0.25% of their value which is well below the usual 1% yardstick.
    This thread put me off ordering some.

    I'm pretty convinced rolling caps, resistors and inductors is a voodoo art with unpredictable results, just like rolling tubes. High bucks won't necessarily render the best result. It just depends on what works with your system setup as it is at the time you do it.

    I might try a Jupiter copper foil bypass to test effectiveness. Why? Whenever I try something silver in the form of ICs I never seem to really like it. Same logic might apply here. But then again it might not. Who knows... this is foo territory, after all.

  2. #252
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    Justin, despite yr reservations on the AN/Zu type full range tonal sound, it looks like you're at least edging in this direction LOL.
    I have to say yr Interstellas have still left their impression on me a couple of months on.
    But my main reservation w yr presentation was the overtly upper mid/treble-centric presentation.
    Having done a couple of dozen live unamplified gigs in the last month, the real thing is much more low midband/upper bass, and I'm not sure this is necessarily the Apogee signature from the Divas and (your) Duettas demos I've been at.

  3. #253
    Fwiw I have evaluated ostensibly identical cables using 4N silver from several different suppliers and they all sounded different. I suspect the annealing and drawing processes used have a big influence on the sonic signature. Anyhow, I didn't detect any silver signature to the Duelund bypasses but did use silk tubing on the 'legs'. You could also try cotton for a warmer presentation.
    Industry disclosure - www.sablonaudio.com & Dealer for Lampizator and Sound Galleries of Monaco Server

  4. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by spiritofmusic View Post
    Justin, despite yr reservations on the AN/Zu type full range tonal sound, it looks like you're at least edging in this direction LOL.
    I have to say yr Interstellas have still left their impression on me a couple of months on.
    But my main reservation w yr presentation was the overtly upper mid/treble-centric presentation.
    Having done a couple of dozen live unamplified gigs in the last month, the real thing is much more low midband/upper bass, and I'm not sure this is necessarily the Apogee signature from the Divas and (your) Duettas demos I've been at.
    The Monacor components were in when you came round. They were quite hard hitting mid range wise, and I later swapped in an original Apogee resistor (Ohmite, actually quite cheap but this one was very age annealed LOL) of a different value an found a pretty pleasing balance. That value was the final value used in that section of the crossover. The effect is to pull the mid range and low HF in over quite a bit of a wider range than you heard.

    I also replaced a resistor bank with just one PathAudio resistor elsewhere.

    That Monacor setup could sound pretty ******* amazing at times but it was far from refined and quite mid/low treble forward as you say.

    The current setup sounds like the mid/treble is more integrated and less "standout". It is also sweeter and notably more euphonic with a more pleasing tonal quality over a wider range of music.

    You could spend years messing around with Apogee crossovers and I expect I probably will LOL The real issue, I think, is that a true ribbon is just so revealing - more so I think than just about anything out there. Even in this pulled back state there's a wealth of detail but it just happens to be much easier on the ear. A surprising result.

  5. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiritofmusic View Post
    Justin, despite yr reservations on the AN/Zu type full range tonal sound, it looks like you're at least edging in this direction LOL.
    I have to say yr Interstellas have still left their impression on me a couple of months on.
    But my main reservation w yr presentation was the overtly upper mid/treble-centric presentation.
    Having done a couple of dozen live unamplified gigs in the last month, the real thing is much more low midband/upper bass, and I'm not sure this is necessarily the Apogee signature from the Divas and (your) Duettas demos I've been at.
    Apogee set up right have my favorite lower mid upper bass. Unmatched. Amps have a lot to do with that though, and that is why you need a high current class A power amp
    Audition recordings: Zero Distortion Link; Reference Components: Zero Distortion Link; Own: Lampi GG One-day-to-get: Apogee Scintilla, or a horn (with Tenor 75 OTL ), Preamp to be fit in to suit the gain and drive the power amp. Analog: TBD

  6. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Sablon Audio View Post
    Fwiw I have evaluated ostensibly identical cables using 4N silver from several different suppliers and they all sounded different. I suspect the annealing and drawing processes used have a big influence on the sonic signature. Anyhow, I didn't detect any silver signature to the Duelund bypasses but did use silk tubing on the 'legs'. You could also try cotton for a warmer presentation.
    When you applied the Dueland bypass was that done just by itself, so that you could assess purely that change? If so, what was the benefit?

    As I swapped in all the new components in one fell swoop I have not assessed the effect of the resistors, caps and coils by themselves, which is a bit disappointing in a sense.

  7. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by bonzo75 View Post
    Apogee set up right have my favorite lower mid upper bass. Unmatched. Amps have a lot to do with that though, and that is why you need a high current class A power amp
    If you want to blow people away with Jim Keltner on drums at high volume then yes.

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by User211 View Post
    If you want to blow people away with Jim Keltner on drums at high volume then yes.
    Especially for the baritone chest
    Audition recordings: Zero Distortion Link; Reference Components: Zero Distortion Link; Own: Lampi GG One-day-to-get: Apogee Scintilla, or a horn (with Tenor 75 OTL ), Preamp to be fit in to suit the gain and drive the power amp. Analog: TBD

  9. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by User211 View Post
    When you applied the Dueland bypass was that done just by itself, so that you could assess purely that change? If so, what was the benefit?
    Yes, was done in isolation and gave a more spacious air with greater detail, extension and sweetness.
    Industry disclosure - www.sablonaudio.com & Dealer for Lampizator and Sound Galleries of Monaco Server

  10. #260
    Just in case anyone wonders what I have been doing is addressing the issue detailed by this review in the 3-5KHz region. It is probably the least flattering review of the DS but it does make some very interesting points. Also, it makes some very odd statements that I can't relate to especially the handling of drums, which IMHO and that of others is very good indeed. That said I did try a Sheffield Labs version of the Usher test disc track Improvisation. The Sheffield Labs version sounds dreadful, for some reason, so that is probably why.

    The real question in my mind is why didn't Apogee do what I have done? It really isn't that hard to work out what to do, especially simple for me with the aid of modern day computer programs. That said they did provide a three position switch for mid range / treble tailoring but it isn't targeted specifically at the area of concern. Maybe they just felt the switch provided the best flexibility and set of overall compromises.

    EDIT: It is the Audio magazine review that the link was supposed to point to. He tries to correlate measurements with sound, which is very sensible, but it only gets you so far. Then you just need ears
    Last edited by User211; 08-13-2017 at 12:17 AM.

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