Another ground boxes' competitor ?

SCAudiophile

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2010
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Greer South Carolina (USA)
What's sad is, an audiophile could DIY a real grounding system that follows good engineering practice and works, for a small fraction of the cost.

But making it pretty is up to the audiophile.

Agreed....I still fail to understand how these grounding boxes (including the larger multi-post version of this new offering) come in at retail prices of $5K-$6K (USD) and higher not to mention ground wires bigger than many power cords, interconnects and speaker cables from some other manufacturers.
 

caliaripaolo

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2012
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Italia
Agreed....I still fail to understand how these grounding boxes (including the larger multi-post version of this new offering) come in at retail prices of $5K-$6K (USD) and higher not to mention ground wires bigger than many power cords, interconnects and speaker cables from some other manufacturers.

The insane priced gears are normality here on audiophile domain.
we want to mention the costs of Elrod cables, for instance ? (which, as you know, I have and love a lot).
I use Entreq boxes and since I think you have an open mind to try, I invite you to test a Poseidon connecting 2 negative terminals of your power amplifier and the third to one spare connector of your Pre-amplifier.
Only at that point will you be able to figure out if the price you will pay will be right for the improvement you get. This is the game in our hobby.
 

SCAudiophile

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2010
1,156
435
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Greer South Carolina (USA)
The insane priced gears are normality here on audiophile domain.
we want to mention the costs of Elrod cables, for instance ? (which, as you know, I have and love a lot).
I use Entreq boxes and since I think you have an open mind to try, I invite you to test a Poseidon connecting 2 negative terminals of your power amplifier and the third to one spare connector of your Pre-amplifier.
Only at that point will you be able to figure out if the price you will pay will be right for the improvement you get. This is the game in our hobby.

Thanks...totally agree; I may try the Entreq when time and funds make themselves available. In the meantime, I've been very happy for years with my Granite Audio Ground Zero star-grounding box and for the last 2-3 years, Environmental Potentials Ground Filters installed in my whole house panel feed to my sub-panel and on the dedicated circuits themselves in my sub-panel. The combination of ground filters and star-grounding will be (IMHO) tough to beat. One other thing,...I have dual grounding rods on the house with CADWELD bonding employed to permanently bond large gauge solid copper ground leads to both rods. The total solution overall is what gets me the playback quality I enjoy today. It will be interesting to see if adding Entreq or Nordost grounding offerings would make any appreciable difference; Entreq is reported to be one of the best clearly, I personally wish they had a bit different appearance than the light wood cases but that's neither here nor there with respect to overall sound quality. Thanks for the recommendation!
 

caliaripaolo

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2012
492
192
950
Italia
Thanks...totally agree; I may try the Entreq when time and funds make themselves available. In the meantime, I've been very happy for years with my Granite Audio Ground Zero star-grounding box and for the last 2-3 years, Environmental Potentials Ground Filters installed in my whole house panel feed to my sub-panel and on the dedicated circuits themselves in my sub-panel. The combination of ground filters and star-grounding will be (IMHO) tough to beat. One other thing,...I have dual grounding rods on the house with CADWELD bonding employed to permanently bond large gauge solid copper ground leads to both rods. The total solution overall is what gets me the playback quality I enjoy today.

I absolutely had no doubts about it, I see your amazing system.


Entreq is reported to be one of the best clearly, I personally wish they had a bit different appearance than the light wood cases but that's neither here nor there with respect to overall sound quality. Thanks for the recommendation!

Yep, :) in my case it pairs well with the color of my Eidolons'. You are welcome.
 

Speedskater

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2010
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Cleveland Ohio
Thanks...totally agree; I may try the Entreq when time and funds make themselves available. In the meantime, I've been very happy for years with my Granite Audio Ground Zero star-grounding box
At least it's a real grounding system. But i guess the switches are to add background noise to taste.

and for the last 2-3 years, Environmental Potentials Ground Filters installed in my whole house panel feed to my sub-panel and on the dedicated circuits themselves in my sub-panel.
Are you sure that they are UL approved for the intended use? Them seem to only have a surge suppression rating.

One other thing,...I have dual grounding rods on the house with CADWELD bonding employed to permanently bond large gauge solid copper ground leads to both rods.
Nothing wrong with a well installed ground rod system, But it's there for safety, not day-to-day AC power quality.
 

RogerD

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May 23, 2010
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BiggestLittleCity
There is no commercially produced grounding device made today that will get you where you need to be.
 

vert

Well-Known Member
Oct 26, 2015
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I have become a disciple of the Vertex AQ approach to reducing noise (RFI, EMI and acoustic) in my own moderately high-end system.

You can read all about it here:-

http://vertexaq.com/about-the-systematic-approach/

By implementing the Vertex systematic approach and adding their components to my system, the performance of my hi fi has been maximised.

It's a great shame that Vertex AQ and their products are not more widely known in the US as they enjoy a very good reputation for sound quality, here in England. The performance of their products are successfully demonstrated at Hi Fi shows and reviews are always positive.

Vertex AQ is virtually unknown in the US. I have owned the Hirez Roraima, and enjoyed it very much.

I have heard very good things about the Taga Balanced. But it was too much trouble to custom order one with US sockets, without being able to hear it first.

I currently use their JSA headphone conditioner.

Since you're in the UK, you should also check out Ziro audio, which uses the same approach as Vertex. I have the Ziro Disclosure power cord and interconnects. Both are stunning.
 

XCop5089

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2015
120
91
260
Winchester, UK
Vertex AQ is virtually unknown in the US. I have owned the Hirez Roraima, and enjoyed it very much.

I have heard very good things about the Taga Balanced. But it was too much trouble to custom order one with US sockets, without being able to hear it first.

I currently use their JSA headphone conditioner.

Since you're in the UK, you should also check out Ziro audio, which uses the same approach as Vertex. I have the Ziro Disclosure power cord and interconnects. Both are stunning.

I am familiar with Ziro Audio and their Disclosure range.

My dealer is loaning me a Zero Disclosure power cord to try in my system next week.
 

Lee

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2011
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Alpharetta, Georgia
I have the "non-active" Synergistic Research grounding planes in my system which connect to each cable (IC and speaker) and every component. It lowers the noise floor. The ground plane connects to a side wall where I installed a Furutech NCF outlet. When the plane is plugged in, the system sounds quieter.

The only downside is lots of extra cables in the loom but given you can connect two together and arrange the wires in a way that prevents tripping.
 

elescher

Member Sponsor
Sep 12, 2010
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New York
I am expecting delivery on the 'active' version of the SR ground on Monday. It was either buying another upgraded grounding cable for my Troy sig., or for about the same cost adding another/different application toward the same concept. Chassis grounding to Troy, and direct to circuit boards to SR, and Entreq. I might even bring the ground wire from the SR to the Tripoint and see what that yields.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Nordost's description of this device sure seems heavy on the gobbledy-gook!

From my amateur radio and Heathkit-building days I remain burdened by a basic, if stale, understanding of elementary electronics and RF theory. Can someone please explain to me why anyone not on a high floor in an apartment building in a concrete jungle would prefer a wire in a box of sand "artificial ground" to a conventional, low resistance to ground, copper rod in the dirt?

If the answer is simply: "we don't know what it does or why it works, but we like how it sounds" I am totally fine with that as an answer. But then can we at least omit the pretentious gobbledy-gook?
 

Speedskater

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2010
941
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Cleveland Ohio
Nordost's description of this device sure seems heavy on the gobbledy-gook!
How very, very true! But I don't think that electricity knows that it's supposed to act that way.


.................... Can someone please explain to me why anyone ................... would prefer a wire in a box of sand "artificial ground" to a conventional, low resistance to ground, copper rod in the dirt?
The reason for connecting to that copper rod in the dirt is for safety during thunderstorms and other electrical events. No electrical reasons for connecting to a box.
 

Cellcbern

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Haven't tried any of the ground boxes (Entreq, Tripoint, etc.) because of the high cost. However I realized a lowering of my system's noise floor by connecting one of Gutwire's "Perfect Ground" cables between an unused rca input on my modified Pathos TT RR and an unused wall socket.

Here is the manufacturer's description of how it works: "Our ground cable provides the shortest path to ground from the circuit board. Why do you need extra grounding when the ground already exists between your equipment and the wall? If you open up the chassis of any equipment, you'll notice that the circuit board ground may not be directly connected to the ground of the IEC inlet. Our ground cable directly grounds circuit board to earth ground. It drains away any noise the circuit board may have".

At $279.00 I consider it a worthwhile tweak.
 

marty

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Apr 20, 2010
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Haven't tried any of the ground boxes (Entreq, Tripoint, etc.) because of the high cost. However I realized a lowering of my system's noise floor by connecting one of Gutwire's "Perfect Ground" cables between an unused rca input on my modified Pathos TT RR and an unused wall socket.

Here is the manufacturer's description of how it works: "Our ground cable provides the shortest path to ground from the circuit board. Why do you need extra grounding when the ground already exists between your equipment and the wall? If you open up the chassis of any equipment, you'll notice that the circuit board ground may not be directly connected to the ground of the IEC inlet. Our ground cable directly grounds circuit board to earth ground. It drains away any noise the circuit board may have".

At $279.00 I consider it a worthwhile tweak.

Roger,
Would love for you to chime in . These seem beefy enough to be right up your alley. Not sure how you would use them for amps, but for front end gear they seem reasonable. Or put another way, what's your current thinking of how we can "get to where we need to be". #2 arc welding cable, etc?
Marty
 

RogerD

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May 23, 2010
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Roger,
Would love for you to chime in . These seem beefy enough to be right up your alley. Not sure how you would use them for amps, but for front end gear they seem reasonable. Or put another way, what's your current thinking of how we can "get to where we need to be". #2 arc welding cable, etc?
Marty
Hi Marty,
This a signal ground and should work fine provided enough connections are available. Yes, I still believe the size of the pathway is the difference maker no matter what others say. Any most well constructed equipment ties the signal ground into the chassis,but both will work. The only difference in my setup all chassis grounds go to one outlet. About 14 2 pound 0 gauge welding cables worth and the noise floor is close to Hadees it's that far down..lol
Effortless,lucid,scary dynamics,and unless the recording is lousy,the room and all 23 drivers are invisible,plus the bass can be atomic. Have fun....
 

Speedskater

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2010
941
15
368
Cleveland Ohio
.............................................
Here is the manufacturer's description of how it works: "Our ground cable provides the shortest path to ground from the circuit board. Why do you need extra grounding when the ground already exists between your equipment and the wall? If you open up the chassis of any equipment, you'll notice that the circuit board ground may not be directly connected to the ground of the IEC inlet. Our ground cable directly grounds circuit board to earth ground. It drains away any noise the circuit board may have".
If the audio circuit common does not have a very low resistance connection to the chassis, then a wire connected to a RCA shell can act as a noise/interference antenna.

At $279.00 I consider it a worthwhile tweak.
That's about $270 more than it should cost.
 

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