Roon and HQ Player

bibo01

Member
Nov 26, 2013
201
1
16
That's your opinion. But I let my clients make their own call. I don't play god for them. That's the beauty of running the OS on an SD card. Takes 30 seconds to change the OS.

That is not - it's the opinion of my clients (but I don't advertize it) or, should I say, my fellow users who make their own call too.
 

bibo01

Member
Nov 26, 2013
201
1
16
Well the latest additions to the upsampling I've been tweaking together with Kimmo the Daphile developer only came out in the beta version released on April 7th. Did your clients compare with that? You must know where to find the beta downloads as they aren't on the official Daphile website. Anyways they can be found here:

http://www.daphile.com/firmware/private-beta/

The official version is 10 months old, and still uses far outdated and inferior algorithms.

Mike are you telling me or my fellow users where to find D. beta?! That is a joke!

Let's stick to the topic "Roon and HQPlayer", shall we?!

Or open your own thread, you've "blizzed" this one well enough.
 

hifial

New Member
Apr 7, 2013
91
0
0
Hi Al

Do these things have to be towers or can a lap top with thise specs work. I ask only because I am a Mac user and in order to play quad DSD a PC is required as a Mac does not have sufficient band width to play DSD256 or is there a way to use a Mac for quad DSD

Hi Steve. Good questions.

They do not have to be a tower. They can be in a low rectangle style case. The big thing to keep in mind is proper cooling. Whether passive or by fan. That is one of the problems with a laptop, assuming that one can find a laptop with enough computing power. But I would highly recommend that one use a headless PC with a tablet before a laptop. The audio PC should be a dedicated PC for audio only if possible.

It is not that a Mac does not have sufficient band width but rather that the OS comes into play.

In order to play DSD256/quad DSD on a Mac you need a DAC that can handle 768PCM ie double rate DXD/384PCM. Very few can do it, some iFi can. This would be using DoP.

I would not buy a DAC based on that. You would be better off using a Windows PC vs a OX Mac with a DAC of your liking.

I hope that helped.
 

hifial

New Member
Apr 7, 2013
91
0
0
DSD wide is how HQP, Daphile, Roon and many DAW workstations such as Sonoma and Pyramix do DSP processing on DSD. It's a conversion to a multibit format like PCM. Main difference from PCM is it's preformed at the original sample rate of the track rather than downsampling.

By just working, I mean you turn on the headless Pc, fire up only 1 mobile app, and you listen to music. No messing with remote desktops, and having to flip the upsampling back to DSD every time you improperly shutdown HQP.

Mike, that is what I thought you meant. However DSD Wide IIUC is PCM , abate high rez PCM, and not "native DSD" that you mentioned earlier. And in my book DSD is only 1Bit. Here again DSD Wide is 8 Bit.

Also, I am not so sure that Jussi uses DSD Wide. I have sent him a question and await a reply.

As far as your statement about "just working". I and many of my fellow HQP + Roon users do EXACTLY what you keep on harping about.

I NEVER have any issues. I press one button on the server, tap on the app on my tablet and done. All my settings are always ready. No need to re-enter them. Also I only need to press that button on the server once. I can leave the server on all the time.

And if I need to restart the server I just hit the front button and it is ready to go.

Now, I grant you it is a little easier because of the SGM that I use. But my Purpose built PC with HQP+ROON that I used last year was just about as easy.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
Well the latest additions to the upsampling I've been tweaking together with Kimmo the Daphile developer only came out in the beta version released on April 7th. Did your clients compare with that? You must know where to find the beta downloads as they aren't on the official Daphile website. Anyways they can be found here:

http://www.daphile.com/firmware/private-beta/

The official version is 10 months old, and still uses far outdated and inferior algorithms.

Daphile supports Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) connections or just USB?
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
I updated last post with Wikipedia link.
(...) With RAAT and NAA I always heard about dropout issues unless I provided the network gear. (...)

Although I never experienced dropout issues, can you elucidate us about this better performance network gear you provided to RAAT users?

BTW, could we rely on your support if we start a thread on Daphile? I (and I suppose others) have some questions that do not fit in this one.
 

nc42acc

Member Sponsor
Nov 10, 2015
609
40
165
North Carolina
I found a Dell Micro OptiPlex 7050 in the outlet section with a 7th Generation i7-7700T Processor, 16GB RAM, 256GB M.2 PCIe SSD and Windows 10 Pro 64. All for way less than 1k. I know this isn't the "ideal" music server but I am hoping it has enough power to run Roon (I have a lifetime subscription) and HQ Player. It is a micro form factor so it will fit in my space and I can use the HDMI out to my TV until I figure out how to run it headless. I hope to have it in house next week. If the consensus is this isn't powerful enough I can always use it as a reception PC at my office so all is not lost. Thanks for everyones help.
 

Kal Rubinson

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2010
2,360
697
1,700
NYC
www.stereophile.com
I found a Dell Micro OptiPlex 7050 in the outlet section with a 7th Generation i7-7700T Processor, 16GB RAM, 256GB M.2 PCIe SSD and Windows 10 Pro 64. All for way less than 1k. I know this isn't the "ideal" music server but I am hoping it has enough power to run Roon (I have a lifetime subscription) and HQ Player. It is a micro form factor so it will fit in my space and I can use the HDMI out to my TV until I figure out how to run it headless. I hope to have it in house next week. If the consensus is this isn't powerful enough I can always use it as a reception PC at my office so all is not lost. Thanks for everyones help.
It should be quite sufficient for 2 channel.

EDIT: I think it should be sufficient for 2 channel but it will depend on what other operations, like upsampling, you want. I don't do upsampling (only downsampling), so I cannot comment on that.
 
Last edited:

hifial

New Member
Apr 7, 2013
91
0
0
I found a Dell Micro OptiPlex 7050 in the outlet section with a 7th Generation i7-7700T Processor, 16GB RAM, 256GB M.2 PCIe SSD and Windows 10 Pro 64. All for way less than 1k. I know this isn't the "ideal" music server but I am hoping it has enough power to run Roon (I have a lifetime subscription) and HQ Player. It is a micro form factor so it will fit in my space and I can use the HDMI out to my TV until I figure out how to run it headless. I hope to have it in house next week. If the consensus is this isn't powerful enough I can always use it as a reception PC at my office so all is not lost. Thanks for everyones help.

I have concerns if you plan to up-sample to DSD512, then I would say no. It is my understanding that you need a minimum base processor speed of about 3.8 - 3.9 to handle DSD512. Most low powered chips (laptops etc) do not get that high. The higher speed processors get much hotter. But if you plan on just DSD256 and less then it should be fine.
 

bibo01

Member
Nov 26, 2013
201
1
16
I have concerns if you plan to up-sample to DSD512, then I would say no. It is my understanding that you need a minimum base processor speed of about 3.8 - 3.9 to handle DSD512. Most low powered chips (laptops etc) do not get that high. The higher speed processors get much hotter. But if you plan on just DSD256 and less then it should be fine.

I agree, especially if you use xtr filter.
 

sbo6

VIP/Donor
May 18, 2014
1,660
594
480
Round Rock, TX
I have concerns if you plan to up-sample to DSD512, then I would say no. It is my understanding that you need a minimum base processor speed of about 3.8 - 3.9 to handle DSD512. Most low powered chips (laptops etc) do not get that high. The higher speed processors get much hotter. But if you plan on just DSD256 and less then it should be fine.

Only a few Intel desktop CPUs have a minimum base freq of >=3.8GHz the 7700 DT variant being one of the few. If HQplayer is meant to be used on Music servers for consumers that seems to very much limit their customer base unless you build /buy a machine with a high $ CPU and a matching Linear PSU + sundry items.
 

sbo6

VIP/Donor
May 18, 2014
1,660
594
480
Round Rock, TX
Hi Al

Do these things have to be towers or can a lap top with thise specs work. I ask only because I am a Mac user and in order to play quad DSD a PC is required as a Mac does not have sufficient band width to play DSD256 or is there a way to use a Mac for quad DSD

Steve, there are several reasons why a laptop is not ideal for top quality audio. 1) If upsampling is required (HQplayer) a very high frequency quad core cpu is required which is not available in a low TDP (thermal design power) mobile processor. As processor frequency increases so does heat which is limited in notebook designs by available real estate. 2) Notebooks are inherently noisy due to minimal real estate and maximum features. So trace spacing and I/O signal to power rails and components are in closer quarters than a desktop. 3) Notebooks commonly receive 1 voltage source (power) via a barrel and / or type C USB. This gets converted via DC to DC on the motherboard = very noisy. A standard Desktop has multiple rails, which in the switching power supply case one could argue is just as bad, however the switching is done in a dedicated separate case which has shielding benefits and often greater current providing capabilities. 3) Any notebook with any decent processing power has a fan = more noise audibly and electrically. 4) Notebooks have display panels attached which are horrible for noise, desktops can either completely eliminate or are at least physically separate it by feet not inches.
 

hifial

New Member
Apr 7, 2013
91
0
0
Only a few Intel desktop CPUs have a minimum base freq of >=3.8GHz the 7700 DT variant being one of the few. If HQplayer is meant to be used on Music servers for consumers that seems to very much limit their customer base unless you build /buy a machine with a high $ CPU and a matching Linear PSU + sundry items.

Please note that I mentioned that you only need that much higher processor speed if one was planing on using it to up-sample to DSD512 (very intense processing when up-sampling DSD128/DSD256 to DSD512 vs hirez PCM>DSD512). Otherwise one could use the lower power chips that have a lower processor speed.
 

sbo6

VIP/Donor
May 18, 2014
1,660
594
480
Round Rock, TX
Please note that I mentioned that you only need that much higher processor speed if one was planing on using it to up-sample to DSD512 (very intense processing when up-sampling DSD128/DSD256 to DSD512 vs hirez PCM>DSD512). Otherwise one could use the lower power chips that have a lower processor speed.

Can you please expand on how much lower speed CPUs and what level upsampling is possible?
 

bibo01

Member
Nov 26, 2013
201
1
16
Well I needed a small form factor PC at the office. Back to the drawing board. This shouldn't be so difficult.

I don't think that hifial nor I wanted to discourage you from that pc system. It was just a word of warning and much it depends on DSD capability of your DAC.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing