Will New Grounding Technology Benefit Digital or Analog More

Speedskater · May 1, 2017

microstrip said:
Yes, but our main problem is that some of the best sounding electronic equipment does not follow his recommendations and people want to use it.

Ralph Morrison was more about large recording & TV studios. It was Neil Muncy that wrote about the infamous 'pin 1 problem' and other interconnect problems at the component level. It took pro audio equipment manufactures a decade to sort out the 'pin 1 problem' and now another decade later some audiophile equipment manufactures still haven't.

* * * * * * * * *
With my copper block grounding box, don't connect incorrectly wired XLR or RCA chassis connectors to the box.

RogerD · May 1, 2017

ddk said:
No worries Roger !

As far as passionate and extreme goes with grounding I'm right up there with you so are a few of my buddies, this is only one of 4 different ground networks that I've installed in my home and my friends have other ones. What I was pointing out is that there's nothing new here wether it's in a box or out there in the field, just gotta figure out what sounds and works best for you.

Enjoy!

david

Do you address the current interference and leakage in amplifiers,preamps,crossovers,DAC,Transports ect?

It is my experience that is the root cause of system sound degradation.

jkeny · May 1, 2017

RogerD said:
Do you address the current interference and leakage in amplifiers,preamps,crossovers,DAC,Transports ect?

It is my experience that is the root cause of system sound degradation.

Yes, Roger this may well be correct - if what you do keeps leakage currents off the signal ground then it will benefit the sound, IMO

RogerD · May 1, 2017

jkeny said:
Yes, Roger this may well be correct - if what you do keeps leakage currents off the signal ground then it will benefit the sound, IMO

John, Yes it does,in fact leakage and current interference can be passed to ground with signal and chassis grounding...but it must be done properly. The size of the pathway is key...everything else is insufficient and too costly. The designs now cannot get the job done, they are to constricted.

jkeny · May 1, 2017

RogerD said:
John, Yes it does,in fact leakage and current interference can be passed to ground with signal and chassis grounding...but it must be done properly. The size of the pathway is key...everything else is insufficient and too costly. The designs now cannot get the job done, they are to constricted.

I'm interested in the other two people you mentioned that were following your lead & their journey - how did they get on - any reports?

It's interesting that Audio Precision & other measuring equipment manufacturers are aware of leakage current issues between connected devices & provide chassis connectors to ground their analysers to devices being measured.

Medical device manufacturers all know about leakage currents & have to meet certain standards

It seems that only in the world of audio is there a blind spot about this & a willingness to deny it exists - "we know all about grounding" - oh yeah? Do tell

ddk · May 1, 2017

RogerD said:
Do you address the current interference and leakage in amplifiers,preamps,crossovers,DAC,Transports ect?

It is my experience that is the root cause of system sound degradation.

If you mean using chokes, filters, chassis drain, speaker ground drain, capacitors, transformers, etc. the answer is yes and in every case the sound became worse. My experience is that in the end it all comes to the earth.

david

jkeny · May 1, 2017

ddk said:
If you mean using chokes, filters, chassis drain, speaker ground drain, capacitors, transformers, etc. the answer is yes and in every case the sound became worse. My experience is that in the end it all comes to the earth.

david

How did you implement chassis drain, speaker ground drain?

RogerD · May 1, 2017

jkeny said:
I'm interested in the other two people you mentioned that were following your lead & their journey - how did they get on - any reports?

It's interesting that Audio Precision & other measuring equipment manufacturers are aware of leakage current issues between connected devices & provide chassis connectors to ground their analysers to devices being measured.

Medical device manufacturers all know about leakage currents & have to meet certain standards

It seems that only in the world of audio is there a blind spot about this & a willingness to deny it exists - "we know all about grounding" - oh yeah? Do tell

Yes John, in fact the one I correspond with on a regular basis today told me that he had developed a important breakthrough. This is not about incremental advances. This is about blasting through barriers of sound quality in every sonic way. I believe this will benefit digital in a profound way. Very exciting and we both are extremely pleased.

jkeny · May 1, 2017

RogerD said:
Yes John, in fact the one I correspond with on a regular basis today that he had devolved a important breakthrough. This is no about incremental advances. This is about blasting through barriers of sound quality in every sonic way. I believe this will benefit digital in a profound way. Very exciting and we both are extremely pleased.

Better sounding than your current grounding configuration or the same but approaching it in a different way?

ddk · May 1, 2017

jkeny said:
How did you implement chassis drain, speaker ground drain?

Tried both connecting the chassis ground post (all Lamm equipment has them) or the chassis screws with 12 gauge ground wire to the rack, to the house rebar, radiator, metal window frame and dedicated ground rods, chemical, hollow pipe, solid rods and 100' of #2 conductor buried in the ground and covered with GEM. I also purchased interconnects with pigtails for chassis drain, same for the speakers. I purchased several brands of speaker wires that come with a pigtail for this purpose, some you need to connect the pigtails at both the amp & speaker end and some only at the speaker end.

david

jkeny · May 1, 2017

ddk said:
Tried both connecting the chassis ground post (all Lamm equipment has them) or the chassis screws with 12 gauge ground wire to the rack, to the house rebar, radiator, metal window frame and dedicated ground rods, chemical, hollow pipe, solid rods and 100' of #2 conductor buried in the ground and covered with GEM.

And all devices in the playback chain connected to this grounding point?

For the speakers I purchased several brands of speaker wires that came with a pigtail for this purpose, some you need to connect the pigtails at both the amp & speaker end and some only at the speaker end.

david

I've heard of this before but never had much truck with it - the pigtail is supposed to act as some sort of 'electron pool' or something like that?
In all instances the sound was made worse by the central grounding of all device in the chain?

RogerD · May 1, 2017

jkeny said:
Better sounding than your current grounding configuration or the same but approaching it in a different way?

I would say by comparing notes that both schemes are comparable. Now I have yet to hit a wall,so a combined effort could indeed yield improved results over what I have experienced.

ddk · May 1, 2017

jkeny said:
And all devices in the playback chain connected to this grounding point?

Any combination that you can imagine, individually and collectively also with everything grounded and/or floating.

jkeny said:
I've heard of this before but never had much truck with it - the pigtail is supposed to act as some sort of 'electron pool' or something like that?

Depends on the manufacturer John, they all have their own spin on it.

jkeny said:
In all instances the sound was made worse by the central grounding of all device in the chain?

Let's clarify, so we know what we're talking about

- Star grounding the equipment electrically to a dedicated earth yielded great results.

- Floating electrical ground, chaining all chassis together and then connection to dedicated earth network, little change in sound.

- Floating electrical ground, star connection to ground via chassis ground posts, less noise.

- Electrically grounded equipment, even if only one component all chassis draining scenarios or use of any filtration of any kind made sound worse, either darker and rolled off or thinner and harsher but always negative. The only exception is grounding/draining? of the preamp playing digital on a bad electricity day the highs were slightly sweeter specially with strings.

- I had very poor results using the popular litter boxes, they do change the sound as do different wires, just for the worse in my case.

david

jkeny · May 1, 2017

ddk said:
Any combination that you can imagine, individually and collectively also with everything grounded and/or floating.

Depends on the manufacturer John, they all have their own spin on it.

Let's clarify, so we know what we're talking about

- Star grounding the equipment electrically to a dedicated earth yielded great results.

- Floating electrical ground, chaining all chassis together and then connection to dedicated earth network, little change in sound.

- Floating electrical ground, star connection to ground via chassis ground posts, less noise.

- Electrically grounded equipment, even if only one component all chassis draining scenarios or use of any filtration of any kind made sound worse, either darker and rolled off or thinner and harsher but always negative. The only exception is grounding/draining? of the preamp playing digital on a bad electricity day the highs were slightly sweeter specially with strings.

- I had very poor results using the popular litter boxes, they do change the sound as do different wires, just for the worse in my case.

david

Ok, thanks for that clarification - I thought you were stating that all of the grounding techniques you tired worsened the sound?

ddk · May 1, 2017

jkeny said:
Ok, thanks for that clarification - I thought you were stating that all of the grounding techniques you tired worsened the sound?

No, my comment was regarding devices for controlling leakage specially as it relates to digital equipment and computers.

david

RogerD · May 1, 2017

ddk said:
Any combination that you can imagine, individually and collectively also with everything grounded and/or floating.

Depends on the manufacturer John, they all have their own spin on it.

Let's clarify, so we know what we're talking about

- Star grounding the equipment electrically to a dedicated earth yielded great results.

- I had very poor results using the popular litter boxes, they do change the sound as do different wires, just for the worse in my case.

david

Ok....this is partially my experience. What are litter boxes....lol? Did you ever increase the size of your pathway to ground.

ddk · May 1, 2017

RogerD said:
Ok....this is partially my experience. What are litter boxes....lol? Did you ever increase the size of your pathway to ground.

You know exactly what I'm talking about

! How do you mean expanding the pathway to the ground?

david

RogerD · May 1, 2017

jkeny said:
Ok, thanks for that clarification - I thought you were stating that all of the grounding techniques you tired worsened the sound?

ddk said:
You know exactly what I'm talking about ! How do you mean expanding the pathway to the ground?

david

David of course I know what you're talking about....

When I say "pathway" that means the physical size of the conductors used in your star ground circuit.

Folsom · May 1, 2017

Speedskater said:
A clue?

Ya Kevin, good lord... go to the clue store. Don't die a curmudgeon!

ddk · May 1, 2017

RogerD said:
David of course I know what you're talking about....

When I say "pathway" that means the physical size of the conductors used in your star ground circuit.

Yes, and there's a distinct effect on the sound too!

david

Will New Grounding Technology Benefit Digital or Analog More

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