Please help me decide on one of these tables!!

bebop86

Well-Known Member
Apr 1, 2013
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Guys Someone I know is going to sell his collection of tables- here are my choices- How would you rate them and what is a fair price- i am looking for something to match my system and is easy to use- Do not want to tinker all the time- thanks so much for your expert advice!!
1-Kuzma XL$ with 4 point tonearm
2- SME 30/2 with new SME5 tonearm
3- TC Acoustic raven AC-3
4-transrotor Rondino
5- Artisan Fidelity Garrad 301 Statement with sep. power suply
My system is all Joule Electra- 450 Marianne preamp,VZN-100 amps, OPS-1 with sep. power supply phono- and Classic audio T1.4 Speakers-
again thanks so much for the advice!!- Gary
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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Wow, nice to know someone with so many good tables. If he has them all set up, why don't you visit him and spend a day with your LPs comparing their various sounds and ease of use? Advice from others may help, but you will probably learn more by interacting with and listening to each of them in the same system. I have only heard the Raven and SME in different systems and I am not familiar at all with your gear, so I can't really offer any advice. I will say that the SME can be set up once properly, maintain its settings with minimal annual maintenance, and then not need tinkering after that, for whatever that is worth.
 

bebop86

Well-Known Member
Apr 1, 2013
79
1
83
Peter thanks- Unfort. they are all boxed up- Not able to listen so that is why I am asking for the advice- i appreciate your thoughts- thanks gary
 

pcosta

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Jul 25, 2010
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Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Guys Someone I know is going to sell his collection of tables- here are my choices- How would you rate them and what is a fair price- i am looking for something to match my system and is easy to use- Do not want to tinker all the time- thanks so much for your expert advice!!
1-Kuzma XL$ with 4 point tonearm
2- SME 30/2 with new SME5 tonearm
3- TC Acoustic raven AC-3
4-transrotor Rondino
5- Artisan Fidelity Garrad 301 Statement with sep. power suply
My system is all Joule Electra- 450 Marianne preamp,VZN-100 amps, OPS-1 with sep. power supply phono- and Classic audio T1.4 Speakers-
again thanks so much for the advice!!- Gary

If you like to play with tonearms and cartridges the TW will be the most accommodating as far as changing arms and length of arms. I had a SME 30/2 V and sold it to buy the TW over ten years ago. I have upgraded to the big copper platter since then.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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If your music tastes are limited to jazz & rock I recommend the 301, doesn't have to be an AF build any less expensive ones will do the job but for classical then it's the Raven for me.

david
 

Bruce B

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Apr 25, 2010
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Another vote for the SME 30/2. As as mastering engineer, I needed something true to the source when playing back acetates and I don't have time to tinker. I needed a set/forget turntable and the SME was the winner.
 

bebop86

Well-Known Member
Apr 1, 2013
79
1
83
Guys thanks so much - Keep the ideas coming- i was leaning towards the SME- Honestly I thought most of you would have picked the Kuzma-
 

bonzo75

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Is the SME that easy to set up among these?
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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Is the SME that easy to set up among these?

All the tts mentioned here are relatively easy to set up by themselves it's the tonearm he goes with that will have the most impact on ease or difficulty of setup.

david
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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If you like to play with tonearms and cartridges the TW will be the most accommodating as far as changing arms and length of arms. I had a SME 30/2 V and sold it to buy the TW over ten years ago. I have upgraded to the big copper platter since then.

pcosta, did you buy the TW just for ease of changing different tonearms and cartridges, or did you also think it sounded better than the SME 30/2A? Did you have a chance to directly compare them in the same system with the same arm cartridge combination, and if so, how would you describe the differences?

I think people buy different turntables for all sorts of reasons and ease of use and flexibility with arms etc is a valid one. I think most people find it too difficult to directly compare multiple turntables before deciding which one to buy, so aesthetics, reputation, ergonomics, price, and buzz can all have an influence in one's decision.
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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If your music tastes are limited to jazz & rock I recommend the 301, doesn't have to be an AF build any less expensive ones will do the job but for classical then it's the Raven for me.

david

David, what makes the turntables you suggest better suited for certain types of music? Does the drive type's characteristics characteristics better match the music? For instance, the drive and bass power of idler for jazz and rock where any motor/wheel noise is less important while the silence of a belt and isolation allows for the nuance and inner detail and complexity of classical? Just guessing.

I've heard people say that certain types of speakers are best suited for certain types of music, but I have not read the same for turntables, arms and cartridges. Shouldn't a well designed component be music genre agnostic? Perhaps this is ideal and reality is different?
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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Is the SME that easy to set up among these?

IMHO by far - I could set a complete SME30/SMEV in fifteen minutes!

The SME comes with excellent gauges - you just put thinks in place and tighten!
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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IMHO by far - I could set a complete SME30/SMEV in fifteen minutes!

The SME comes with excellent gauges - you just put thinks in place and tighten!

My experience also. And build quality and service is extremely high. The OP asked about pricing. I would think that a good condition SME 30/2A (with V arm) and all packaging is worth about $16,000. I would try to get the newest power supply/motor controller. Older models go for as low as $12,000. The other day there were a couple of used Model 30s listed on Audiogon.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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David, what makes the turntables you suggest better suited for certain types of music? Does the drive type's characteristics characteristics better match the music? For instance, the drive and bass power of idler for jazz and rock where any motor/wheel noise is less important while the silence of a belt and isolation allows for the nuance and inner detail and complexity of classical? Just guessing.

I've heard people say that certain types of speakers are best suited for certain types of music, but I have not read the same for turntables, arms and cartridges. Shouldn't a well designed component be music genre agnostic? Perhaps this is ideal and reality is different?

The tt is extremely important to the quality of the final sound and it's what remains in your system while arms & cartridges will get swapped out. Sonically I like the 301 best but it lacks the ultimate resolution of some of the others which only matters with classical music otherwise I'm not separating them into different music camps.

david
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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IMHO by far - I could set a complete SME30/SMEV in fifteen minutes!

The SME comes with excellent gauges - you just put thinks in place and tighten!

Yeah, since there is no azimuth adjustment, it's pretty straightforward. Nothing like the Well-Tempered, where it takes hours..... and it changes constantly over time!!
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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IMHO by far - I could set a complete SME30/SMEV in fifteen minutes!

The SME comes with excellent gauges - you just put thinks in place and tighten!

This is only during the initial set up? What about after you start playing, the adjustments will all depend on the tonearm? I can see that in the case of TWA adjusting the motors and the belts might take forever to optimize, especially knowing if you should isolate all on the same level or different level
 

DaveyF

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Jul 31, 2010
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Yeah, since there is no azimuth adjustment, it's pretty straightforward. Nothing like the Well-Tempered, where it takes hours..... and it changes constantly over time!!

LOL!! You must have experience with the WTA!! While I really enjoy my WTA Black arm ( the liquid bearing is absolutely quiet, so much so that it has become somewhat of an annoyance when I hear most other bearing designs on the market!) , the set up procedure is a major PITA! However, once set it does tend to remain so....so long as the weather doesn't change too much.
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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The tt is extremely important to the quality of the final sound and it's what remains in your system while arms & cartridges will get swapped out. Sonically I like the 301 best but it lacks the ultimate resolution of some of the others which only matters with classical music otherwise I'm not separating them into different music camps.

david

Thanks David. That makes sense. I've always like getting as much resolution as I can, depending on price and my awareness of options. I'm curious, but the OP may also find this interesting, why do you think the 301 lacks the resolution capabilities of some of the other tables, what other areas besides resolution account for it being your favorite? And finally, why do you think the Raven has the most resolution of the bunch?
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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Thanks David. That makes sense. I've always like getting as much resolution as I can, depending on price and my awareness of options. I'm curious, but the OP may also find this interesting, why do you think the 301 lacks the resolution capabilities of some of the other tables, what other areas besides resolution account for it being your favorite? And finally, why do you think the Raven has the most resolution of the bunch?

It's not what I think it's what I know from owning many 301s in all kinds of different bases, the Garrard is extremely musical with a large solid sound that none of the other ones can touch but I also know it's limitations when it comes to classical music. The problem with the SME is the arm, I never cared for the V and now it's only offered with silver wiring which IMO is the worst case scenario and you're limited to a single 9"-10" arm after spending all this money. The Raven on the other hand accommodates multiple arms of any length and is upgradeable which means it will grow with you and sonically I think it's the best overall here in the bunch.

david
 

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