ZenWave Audio D4 Interconnect

knghifi

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Dec 6, 2014
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I compared old verses new D4 XLR and they're completely different cables.

New D4 is fast, neutral, transparent, ZERO compression ...
 

felipe91

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May 23, 2022
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Hello,

i've read a lot of good things about the D4 XLR interconnect.

Can it be compared to "no cost object cables" such as Stealth sakra, Siltech empress double crown, kubala sosna elation, cardas clear beyond ...etc

is the soundstage very deep and large. Is it very precise and with a very good layering of the sound?
I would like to replace my stealth indra V10 (very good but probably there is not enough body) between the CD player and the preamp.

thank you for you feedback
 
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Al M.

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Hello,

i've read a lot of good things about the D4 XLR interconnect.

Can it be compared to "no cost object cables" such as Stealth sakra, Siltech empress double crown, kubala sosna elation, cardas clear beyond ...etc

is the soundstage very deep and large. Is it very precise and with a very good layering of the sound?
I would like to replace my stealth indra V10 (very good but probably there is not enough body) between the CD player and the preamp.

thank you for you feedback

Can't speak for the D4 XLR, but when it comes to my D4 RCA the answer to your questions,

"is the soundstage very deep and large. Is it very precise and with a very good layering of the sound?"

is yes. But you can hear it for yourself. I am sure that DaveC, as he always does, will be happy to send you a D4 XLR demo cable to try. Just contact him by PM on WBF or by email or phone given on his ZenWave Audio website.
 

felipe91

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May 23, 2022
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Hi, thank you for your answer, thats a good idea. I will contact DaveC.

Does the D4 XLR can be compared to "no cost object cables" such as Stealth sakra, Siltech empress double crown, kubala sosna elation, cardas clear beyond ...etc?
 
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Al M.

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Hi, thank you for your answer, thats a good idea. I will contact DaveC.

You're welcome, Felipe.

Does the D4 XLR can be compared to "no cost object cables" such as Stealth sakra, Siltech empress double crown, kubala sosna elation, cardas clear beyond ...etc?

I have not done those comparisons. You will find out how good the cable sounds.
 
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DaveC

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Nov 16, 2014
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Hello,

i've read a lot of good things about the D4 XLR interconnect.

Can it be compared to "no cost object cables" such as Stealth sakra, Siltech empress double crown, kubala sosna elation, cardas clear beyond ...etc

is the soundstage very deep and large. Is it very precise and with a very good layering of the sound?
I would like to replace my stealth indra V10 (very good but probably there is not enough body) between the CD player and the preamp.

thank you for you feedback

Hi and thanks for your message!

Sure, I've had a lot of comparisons over the years and my top-end interconnect cables, DSR, D4 and D5, do quite well when compared against other brands. When D4 1st came out nearly 10 years ago it was clearly better than many top brands but I think many brands have closed the gap to some degree to be totally honest. My cables are still a lot less expensive though, as ZenWave's mission is to offer top end cables for relatively reasonable prices. The DSR is 17g UPOCC silver ribbon and is pretty close to Siltech Crown series while the D4 is more comparable to their silver/gold cables, but being UPOCC wire I think it has better clarity. Also Wireworld Platinum Eclipse uses 17g UPOCC silver construction, the DSR is also pretty close in character there too. I recently had a comparison with Shunyata Sigma, he said D4 is a bit warmer, DSR a bit clearer. He ended up preferring the DSR. Similar with Cardas Clear and Clear Beyond. Cable Co likes to send people these cables to try out, a majority of people end up with my cables. While Shunyata, Cardas, Audience, etc. have managed to come up with copper cables that are much clearer and less warm by using high voltage processing steps in the last decade, it's still not as clear and unrestrained as UPOCC silver, it sounds a bit dull in comparison imo. Jorma is my favorite copper cable and the only one that I've heard that I think is comparable in overall quality to UPOCC silver, but the price is very high. I think with UPOCC silver it's just difficult to get a balanced sound too, it can come across as dry or thin, I avoid that by using gold in the D4 and D5, and 17g ribbon wire in the DSR.

On the Stealth cable, I think it's very good, there's always a trade-off between body, warmth and resolution and as long as you're not looking for a warmer option my DSR offers a very full-bodied sound with a touch of warmth due to the 17g ribbon wire design. D4 is warmer, has a great tone, but does sacrifice a touch of clarity and is a bit softer sounding vs the DSR. Also, DSR produces slightly larger images in the soundstage but not overblown like many foil cables. D4 is more focused.

Let me know if you have any further questions! :)
 

MarkusBarkus

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Feb 6, 2021
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@DaveC very helpful post, thank you. Along those lines, any feedback, comparative info, etc. re: Zenwave XLRs vs. Iconoclast UPOCC, which is my current use-case? Thank you...
 

DaveC

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@DaveC very helpful post, thank you. Along those lines, any feedback, comparative info, etc. re: Zenwave XLRs vs. Iconoclast UPOCC, which is my current use-case? Thank you...

I offer UPOCC copper cables, like my D1, for much more reasonable prices. UPOCC silver cables are in another league entirely.

Iconoclast cables are using marketing in exactly the same way as any other luxury product, only trying to appeal to a different niche that values their marketing spiel that concentrates on technical superiority. Their claims about why they cost so much vs Belden's regular cables are likely a fabrication. Evidence for this is in their per ft pricing, a 10 ft 1x4 RCA cable with UPOCC copper is $955, 11ft is $972, so $17/ft. For ETP copper it is about half that cost per ft. If you like these cables just get one cable that covers the entire length of cabling you need and chop it up into multiple cables and then use better quality RCA plugs and you'll have cables that are better than std Iconoclast cables and only pay the luxury tax on one cable. Also a 10 ft UPOCC vs ETP cable is $955 vs $320. UPOCC copper is not that expensive.

That said, Iconoclast cables are actually good and imo they are designed and manufactured very well too. Belden's copper sounds clear and is superior to most other bulk cable imo. It's just Iconoclast marketing that justifies their massive price increase vs off the shelf Belden cable seems questionable at best, and the price difference for different types of copper seems similarly arbitrary and based on what works best for marketing.


Also, there's this: "The dielectric, in either case, is mostly air: the wires are uninsulated..." From the Iconoclast site:


This means the wire will corrode over time. When you see "air dielectric" combined with conductors that corrode due to the presence of air, I'd consider looking elsewhere.
 
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MarkusBarkus

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Feb 6, 2021
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...yes, sir...I'm looking at Zen Wave, ergo pinging this thread. Thanks for your reply. DM will be valuable to continue this project. Cheers, @DaveC
 

felipe91

Member
May 23, 2022
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Hi and thanks for your message!

Sure, I've had a lot of comparisons over the years and my top-end interconnect cables, DSR, D4 and D5, do quite well when compared against other brands. When D4 1st came out nearly 10 years ago it was clearly better than many top brands but I think many brands have closed the gap to some degree to be totally honest. My cables are still a lot less expensive though, as ZenWave's mission is to offer top end cables for relatively reasonable prices. The DSR is 17g UPOCC silver ribbon and is pretty close to Siltech Crown series while the D4 is more comparable to their silver/gold cables, but being UPOCC wire I think it has better clarity. Also Wireworld Platinum Eclipse uses 17g UPOCC silver construction, the DSR is also pretty close in character there too. I recently had a comparison with Shunyata Sigma, he said D4 is a bit warmer, DSR a bit clearer. He ended up preferring the DSR. Similar with Cardas Clear and Clear Beyond. Cable Co likes to send people these cables to try out, a majority of people end up with my cables. While Shunyata, Cardas, Audience, etc. have managed to come up with copper cables that are much clearer and less warm by using high voltage processing steps in the last decade, it's still not as clear and unrestrained as UPOCC silver, it sounds a bit dull in comparison imo. Jorma is my favorite copper cable and the only one that I've heard that I think is comparable in overall quality to UPOCC silver, but the price is very high. I think with UPOCC silver it's just difficult to get a balanced sound too, it can come across as dry or thin, I avoid that by using gold in the D4 and D5, and 17g ribbon wire in the DSR.

On the Stealth cable, I think it's very good, there's always a trade-off between body, warmth and resolution and as long as you're not looking for a warmer option my DSR offers a very full-bodied sound with a touch of warmth due to the 17g ribbon wire design. D4 is warmer, has a great tone, but does sacrifice a touch of clarity and is a bit softer sounding vs the DSR. Also, DSR produces slightly larger images in the soundstage but not overblown like many foil cables. D4 is more focused.

Let me know if you have any further questions! :)
Thank you very much Dave for this very precise answer.

I've got a luxman CD08u + stealth indra V10 XLR + luxman C900u preamp + nordost valhalla 2 XLR + luxman M900 U amp (class A for the firsts watts). Maybe DSR would be more adapted to what i'm seeking (more than DS4) to have more body? but what about the tones with the DSR?
Nota: Don't want something too warm (luxman components are probably a little bit warm/sweet) to replace stealth indra V10 XLR .

I've bought most of my components "used" because they are very expensive "new".

In fact I would like to have all the qualities of the indra (in my opinion: a lot of details/resolution, 3D soundstage..etc) + more body + better tones ....etc. and very transparent (no specific sound signature).

If i can avoid paying a used cable 5000/6000 $/euros (costing new more than 10000$/euros, which is crazy) and have a significative improvement with D4 or DSR , it would be great !

Do you think DSR XLR/ D4 is an alternative to Cardas clear beyond/ kubala sosna elation/stealth sakra V12 (or V16)/ siltech empress double crown, in term of resolution, 3D image, transparency, beauty of the tones, speed, body?

thank you !
 

felipe91

Member
May 23, 2022
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I've just read that:


DSR and D4 seem to be very interesting, with different qualities.
 

DaveC

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Nov 16, 2014
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Hi felipe91,

I definitely understand what you want from a a cable, having both maximum resolution as well as realistic tone is the holy grail of cables. I try to provide a balance between resolution and warmth, you need a cable that is resolving enough to provide an open feeling, immersive 3-D soundstage with a "you are there" presentation while also having realistic tonality and a full bodied sound.

With your system I'd guess the DSR would be your best bet, being pure UPOCC silver it's very resolving, but it also has a tiny bit of warmth and a full sound due to the design. D4 is warmer but I'd guess DSR will strike a better balance.
 
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DaveC

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felipe91

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May 23, 2022
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Thank you Dave. The review is very good.

What is the duration of the break in to obtain 80% , and 100% of the performance?
 
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Sep 10, 2022
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@felipe91 - I recently purchased DSR XLRs and the breakin was not bad at all maybe 50-100 hours and they are fantastic i chose them over Cardas clear beyond, shunyata alpha , top wireworld platinum, and others they have the body and warmth of the top copper cables i tested with more holographic resolution, bloom , and a smoothness that was unrivaled. try them!

@DaveC what are your thoughts on shielding vs non shielded on Balanced / single ended interconnects? specifically your DSR,D4,D5
 
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DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
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Thank you Dave. The review is very good.

What is the duration of the break in to obtain 80% , and 100% of the performance?
@felipe91 - I recently purchased DSR XLRs and the breakin was not bad at all maybe 50-100 hours and they are fantastic i chose them over Cardas clear beyond, shunyata alpha and top wireworld platinums, they have all the body and warmth of the top copper cables i tested with more holographic resolution, bloom , and smoothness that was unrivaled. try them!

@DaveC what are your thoughts on shielding vs non shielded on Balanced / single ended interconnects? specifically your DSR,D4,D5


felipe91, sorry I neglected to reply, Rich, thanks very much for the post! :)

Burn-in is a tough one because it depends a lot on how the cable is handled during shipping. Rough handling and/or temperature changes seem to set burn-in back to some degree. The ribbon cables are seem to be more effected by shipping, to the point a well-used demo can take several weeks to get back to 100%. But in some cases it's just a few days to settle down.

Just in general, a new cable will sound noticeably better in just a few hours, and then it'll get a lot better after a few days, and it may take a few months for it to achieve maximum clarity. Any changes after a few weeks are very subtle compared to initial burn-in.

On shielding, I tend to shield long cables and always shield phono cables. For short line-level cables often shielding isn't required in a home system. Shielding can be a double-edged sword though, it will definitely reduce noise but it can also make the sound seem duller and transients slower. The design of the cable can mitigate those issues, of course I try my best to make sure the shielding is sonically transparent.
 

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