ZenWave Audio D4 Interconnect

Al M.

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Finally, I'd like to add a few thoughts about the A/B/X testing method. Not knowing what I was hearing made for a very intense listening session. During the A/B part, obviously we knew there were two different cables being heard, and we simply described the differences, if any, between the two. That part was fairly easy. The test changed when we heard the third X part. We did not know if you switched cables again or not. Now we were being asked to remember the sound of the previous two cables while listening to unfamiliar music and identify if the third cable was the same as the first or the second. I found this test to be fundamentally different from the first test. We were not listening for differences, but instead testing our recall ability. I thought I correctly identified it, but was clearly wrong. That knowledge of failing the test then influenced my listening for the rest of the evening and contributed to an overall very confusing listening session. I don't know much about blind testing. The fact that I failed it and that you are clearly certain which cable you prefer means either that this kind of testing is somehow flawed, that I am not a good testing subject and poor listener, or that bias may enter into your decision, or something else entirely. I don't really know.

Peter,

you a "poor listener"? it is obvious to me that you are an excellent listener. You always make astute observations, which also have helped me many times to improve my system.

The problem seems to lie more in blind tests. ABX proponents view humans as scientific objects, as lab rats, as it were. We aren't. As has been observed by others, these tests induce psychological stress, as well as expectations, which can be detrimental to our cognitive abilities.

Also sighted tests can be problematic, even when you are certain that there is little bias against an expected improvement. I once did a test of a well regarded power cable on my CD transport, and was perfectly willing to spend the extra grand for it. I did rigorous testing, one parameter at a time (e.g., tone, detail, dynamics, rhythm & timing etc.), and a number of times I thought there was a difference. Only, switching back there just wasn't. Due to all these false positive flags It took me a long time to decide there indeed was no difference. It was exhausting. Towards the end, when I had already concluded that if there was any difference it was not significant enough to buy the cable, and I was just simply curious to hear any difference at all, the false positives still kept creeping up here and there.

The best thing, as several here at WBF have suggested, may be to take your time with one component in a stress-free manner, get to live with it for a while, and then switch back to assess if there was any meaningful difference to you.
 

Al M.

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MadFloyd

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I am also a believer in Dave's cables. I prefer the D4 over all other cables I own. I'm not enjoying a full loom (only one interconnect so far) but over time I hope to change that.

I am also auditioning his power cables which are also very good.
 

Al M.

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I am also a believer in Dave's cables. I prefer the D4 over all other cables I own. I'm not enjoying a full loom (only one interconnect so far) but over time I hope to change that.

I am also auditioning his power cables which are also very good.

I am not surprised, Ian. Thanks again for the opportunity to hear the D4 interconnect first in your system.
 

KostasP.

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An antipodean perspective.

For months now I am using the D4 interconnects, after conducting an intensive comparison between six (american) cables. Whilst Al M's descriptives (pertaining to his own system) may appear to be somewhat hyperbolic, I can unreservedly concur with the truly excellent sonic qualities of the D4s. They seem to neither exaggerate nor undermine whatever is fed through them. They are umbilical cords, feeding the system with unadulterated nourishment.

I value neutrality\naturalness, transparency and resolution and the D4s complement admirably my system's synergy (with the ML CLXs as the main protagonist of such a sound). They have been recently paired with my newly acquired T+A PDP 3000 HV CD\SACD\DAC and the combination is beyond reproach. If I had not finalised my other cables prior to discovering the D4s ( two pairs of High Fidelity, Allnic speaker cables ), I would have certainly considered an all D4 set-up.

I strongly suspect that American audiophiles are, unfortunately, influenced\coerced by appearance; cables are NOT women. If they peel off the snake skin and only judge the innards (perhaps blindly to remove expectation bias and the placebo effect), they will be utterly surprised by what these cables have to offer. These cables are right in your "backyards" and I strongly recommend to listen and evaluate their merits.

I listen, always learning. Cheers, Kostas.
 
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PeterA

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I just posted this in Ron's Comparative Listening Tests thread and copied it here because it further explains my audition of the ZenWave D4 cable.




Interesting topic, Ron. Reflecting upon that evening of testing the two 1 M ICs, I now realize why my and our friend's input was helpful to Al. When comparing the two cables, my friend and I both preferred one to the other, both early on with unfamiliar music, and then later on with more familiar music. This was consistent during the A/B testing. I don't know if warm up times effected the outcome as Stehno suggests it might, but we were both able to describe the differences between the cables and why we preferred one to the other. Al heard things differently as he preferred the slightly brighter sound of the neutral cable and reflective strip which I thought seemed to homogenize the frequency range, and make things a bit bland. I think Al liked the increased resolution of the new cable. Looking back on it now, I think we were listening for different things. We all described the sound in similar ways, but we weighed particular aspects of the sound differently.

I believe that our comments led Al to rotate his Tube Traps so that the reflective strip would not face the listener. The combination of the reflective strip facing the listeners and the more neutral tonal balance and increased detail of one cable resulted in an overly bright sound. I preferred the slightly darker sounding cable because I thought it was better balanced with the room acoustic. However, once Al rotated the Tube Traps so that the absorptive side faced the listener, then the more neutral cable allowed the system to interact with the room better and the result was a more balanced, natural sound with greater resolution. We were hearing less reflection of high frequencies and more absorption of lower frequencies with the Tube Traps rotated. This resulted in less room sound, and more direct sound from the system, which benefited from the more neutral tonal balance and increased resolution of the first cable.

So, in the end, I am confident that the evening's listening session helped to sort out the differences between the two cables and resulted in a clear preference for Al. I don't know what it really says about the testing methodology, but the process was helpful to Al, which is why our friend and I were invited over in the first place.

One more comment: It is possible that Al had an expectation bias for the new cable which he was auditioning because he had heard it previously in a different system, liked it, and now was trying it in his own system. He knew all along which cable was which, so his listening was sighted, while his guests were truly blind to which cable they were hearing. It is interesting that Al initially disagreed with us, but then once he rotated the Traps and the sound changed again, we all agreed that he had struck the best combination, and it was with his new cable which the guests did not realize until after the testing was complete and the cables were revealed.

Few of us audiophiles have the skills or ability to do truly controlled listening tests of gear we have for audition. We get together and do the best we can. The tests are flawed, and we are flawed, but we have fun and often do make progress. In the end, we do what we can to try to improve our systems, hopefully in an absolute and objective sense, but usually it is just in a relative sense, based on our subjective preferences. It is a crazy hobby.
 

even.twice

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Going to solely XLR connection soon, I'm letting go a pair of 2M Zenwave Audio D4 RCA at $1,100. Price includes worldwide EMS shipping. Kindly please PM me at even.twice@gmail.com

IMG_0031.jpg

The additional red dot sticker is Telos quantum sticker. http://www.telos-audio.com.tw/pd_new.html. It is removable. Four have been applied on this pair of D4.

If it is not a proper place to post classified ad, kindly please let me know.

Thank you!
 

DaveC

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I do take trade-ins if you're interested in a D4 XLR, let me know!
 

bazelio

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So I've just started auditioning interconnects as I recently swapped out an active tube preamp for a Slagleformer passive and did away with XLR connections at the same time. My XLR cables have been sold off, and I'm now evaluating RCA cables. The first to arrive was one pair Zenwave D4, and one pair Zenwave D5 from Dave. After a couple days of listening, I thought I'd share some quick impressions. I should also note that I vastly prefer the neutral, alive D4 to the warmer more restrained D5. I didn't spend much time with the D5 after a quick A/B compare using just one record. The difference was stark, and the D4 was the only path forward for me.

First off I've been using Furutech Audio Reference III cables for the time being. While they're not bad and generally inoffensive all around, they do commit a few sins of omission. And the D4s made this ever so clear. I'd also previously used Wywires, Jorma, and Audience cables in this rig (but before the move to my passive pre).

With the D4 swapped in to place only between my EAR 324 phono and passive preamp (with the Furu ARIII remaining between the preamp and amp), I was treated to a significant change in presentation.

1. The D4 vs the Furutech compare is akin to looking out of your house through a freshly Windexed window vs a window that hasn't been washed since the Spring of 2017. The clarity of the D4 is miles ahead.

2. The D4's handling of decay and ambience is phenomenal. Along with the superb clarity, this is the first thing that stood out. I simply hadn't realized just how much information in the decay of notes was being lopped off by these Furutechs. Startling! The ambient sounds and resonances; the character of the recording venue, etc. All these come to light now much more so than before. And this creates a very realistic, natural, "live" sound!

3. The D4's create an incredibly cohesive presentation. Micro-detail is now coming out of previously "dead" spots in the sound stage, and the room feels completely full of the musical presentation now. It has become a more immersive experience.

4. The D4 is unrestrained. It is open and airy with no detectable dynamic compression. Treble can sparkle, bass can drive deep (and tight), and D4 can allow your gear to be fast and explosive. Now, unrestrained can also, to some, mean unforgiving. I don't disagree. To me, though, it's not a cable's job to be forgiving. Bright recordings should sound bright, dirty should sound dirty, warm should sound warm. And the D4 doesn't seem to influence the sound in any of these directions on it's own, but allows the innate character of the recording, mastering, etc to come through. I don't find the D4 to be fatiguing in and of themselves. However, if your rig itself has fatiguing tendencies, then it's obvious to me that the D4 will do nothing to prevent them from coming through. My Kuzma Stabi M with Transfiguration Proteus and EAR 324 work very very well together, IMO, and I want nothing more than for my cables to just step aside and let them do their thing.

5. The D4 doesn't seem to produce any tonal emphasis, whereas the Furutech's warmish copper coloration with treble rolloff was always readily apparent. Today, I was however debating with a friend whether there was a bit of sweetness in timbre (a small bit) to the D4s, or whether it was the D4 allowing me to better hear the character of my newish cartridge - the Transfiguration Proteus - which might be slightly sweet. Now I'm starting to believe it's a bit of both. So I do think the D4 is every so slightly sweet. But it's slight and while I'd consider these cables "neutral", I'd also be remiss if I didn't mention this. And I'm also curious what Dave thinks about it. Either way, any concerns over the D4 being high in silver content and therefore on the thin or shrill side of things are unfounded. And in fact, I'd say I'm hearing more body with the D4s than ever before. I think their transparency is simply allowing the sound to bloom and fill out the sound stage much more. I'd rate the transparency of the D4s at about 9 or 9.5 out of 10. The D5s, however, with their higher gold content were notably less transparent and more warm, rich, and laid back.

So far... a great showing by the Zenwave D4. I'd really have to say anyone auditioning cables must put these on their list. Price-to-performance is phenomenal here. I've hopefully got another D4 pair coming in from Dave soon, so that I can complete the stretch between preamp to amp using D4 as well. And I'll be glad to update this thread with further impressions as a few other cables on my audition list arrive.
 
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Ron Resnick

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What a positive report!

Congratulations Dave Cahoon!
 

Al M.

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Excellent description, Bazelio.

Where we overlap (c.f. my opening post) we come to the same conclusions, but you touch on some important points that I did not cover, which is very good.

While we both agree on overall neutrality and micro-detail, I don't hear any slight sweetness in the D4 cable as you do. Can you please describe this in more detail so that I get a better idea what you refer to? As I outlined in my opening post, I find strings sound very beautiful with the D4 cable, but I ascribe this to timbral accuracy rather than added sweetness to the sound.

Al
 

bazelio

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Excellent description, Bazelio.

Where we overlap (c.f. my opening post) we come to the same conclusions, but you touch on some important points that I did not cover, which is very good.

While we both agree on overall neutrality and micro-detail, I don't hear any slight sweetness in the D4 cable as you do. Can you please describe this in more detail so that I get a better idea what you refer to? As I outlined in my opening post, I find strings sound very beautiful with the D4 cable, but I ascribe this to timbral accuracy rather than added sweetness to the sound.

Al

It's really difficult to say, Al. At the end of the day we want to achieve a natural / neutral sound and in the process of doing so, we have to *try* to determine the contribution from numerous variables. Interesting you mention strings, as I was detecting an overall slight sweetness in regards to string timbre in my rig. When I listen to something like Michael Hedges, Aerial Boundaries for example I do think timbral accuracy is slightly off. I do prefer to err on the side of slightly sweet vs slightly dry, and I can't call what I hear perfectly neutral. So, while this could be the character of my EAR 890 with EI KT90 or my Proteus cart, I tend to think the cable is making at least some contribution here. I've heard the same record using the same cart on the same arm, and through the same amp elsewhere with different interconnects. I just don't recall the sweetness there. And I don't think my solid state / transformer based phono or passive preamp is adding this color, either. So I think I still lean towards believing the D4 to be slightly sweet. I could be wrong, too. That's why I mentioned wondering what Dave himself thought. And again, it's slight. We're not talking Marconi 6SN7 sweet. Just a pinch of sugar. :)
 
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Folsom

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Maybe a pinch. Having lower Z ground helps remove some harshness to.
 

Al M.

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It's really difficult to say, Al. At the end of the day we want to achieve a natural / neutral sound and in the process of doing so, we have to *try* to determine the contribution from numerous variables. Interesting you mention strings, as I was detecting an overall slight sweetness in regards to string timbre in my rig. When I listen to something like Michael Hedges, Aerial Boundaries for example I do think timbral accuracy is slightly off. I do prefer to err on the side of slightly sweet vs slightly dry, and I can't call what I hear perfectly neutral. So, while this could be the character of my EAR 890 with EI KT90 or my Proteus cart, I tend to think the cable is making at least some contribution here. I've heard the same record using the same cart on the same arm, and through the same amp elsewhere with different interconnects. I just don't recall the sweetness there. And I don't think my solid state / transformer based phono or passive preamp is adding this color, either. So I think I still lean towards believing the D4 to be slightly sweet. I could be wrong, too. That's why I mentioned wondering what Dave himself thought. And again, it's slight. We're not talking Marconi 6SN7 sweet. Just a pinch of sugar. :)

Yes, it's difficult to tell things apart. For example, I plan to review my tube amp at some point, and will test tonal neutrality in comparison with some SS amps. But how do I know how neutral these sound?

If you heard the same record using the same cart on the same arm, and through the same amp elsewhere with different interconnects, and you didn't hear the sweetness, how do you know that this is not due to different speakers and room acoustics?
 

DaveC

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Thanks for posting your impressions bazelio! :)

In my cable comparison page I describe the D4 as 2% warmth vs 20% for my copper cables. My website needs to be updated all around, so please forgive the old pics and references to cables I no longer make (the cable with Duelund silver wire).

http://www.zenwaveaudio.com/interconnect-cable-comparison/


I can make a cable without the D4's warmth but it's a very subtle difference, most won't prefer it, and that preference will likely depend heavily on the recording in question as well. For a majority of systems and recordings the D4's warmth will make for a more realistic and natural sounding timbre.
 

bazelio

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Al, it wasn't the speakers as they were both Marten just 1 level apart in the Heritage series. Same drivers and internal wiring (Jorma). But again, it's very hard to be precise about this.

Thanks for the confirmation, Dave. We may have already spent too much time discussing this slight D4 coloration because as I said it doesn't seem to affect important things like PRAT and openness. I think you almost have to be trying to hear it, and I don't even detect it all the time. The D4 checks so many boxes.
 

Al M.

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Thanks for posting your impressions bazelio! :)

In my cable comparison page I describe the D4 as 2% warmth vs 20% for my copper cables. My website needs to be updated all around, so please forgive the old pics and references to cables I no longer make (the cable with Duelund silver wire).

http://www.zenwaveaudio.com/interconnect-cable-comparison/


I can make a cable without the D4's warmth but it's a very subtle difference, most won't prefer it, and that preference will likely depend heavily on the recording in question as well. For a majority of systems and recordings the D4's warmth will make for a more realistic and natural sounding timbre.

How do you arrive at 2 % warmth, Dave, with such precision? Again, I have a hard time figuring out how one would objectively come to such a conclusion given all that was said earlier; after all, this can hardly be measured either.

I don't have a problem accepting that the D4 might have a bit of warmth, I am just puzzled at how you arrive at that conclusion. For example, if pure silver were your benchmark for neutrality, how would you know that this was truly neutral?
 

bazelio

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How do you arrive at 2 % warmth, Dave, with such precision? Again, I have a hard time figuring out how one would objectively come to such a conclusion given all that was said earlier; after all, this can hardly be measured either.

I don't have a problem accepting that the D4 might have a bit of warmth, I am just puzzled at how you arrive at that conclusion. For example, if pure silver were your benchmark for neutrality, how would you know that this was truly neutral?


Personally, I would treat such numbers as being useful only in relative terms. They help to describe the magnitude of tonal shift (among other things) between various cables. So, his 2% might be your 5% in absolute terms, however you'll both probably agree that the A/B difference between the "2%" cable and the "20%" cable is sufficiently large in a highly resolving system. I'd personally put the D5 much closer to the 20% than the 2% in relative terms after my brief listen to both, FWIW. That being said, I've never heard the cable that Dave describes as having "20% warmth".
 

DaveC

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How do you arrive at 2 % warmth, Dave, with such precision? Again, I have a hard time figuring out how one would objectively come to such a conclusion given all that was said earlier; after all, this can hardly be measured either.

I don't have a problem accepting that the D4 might have a bit of warmth, I am just puzzled at how you arrive at that conclusion. For example, if pure silver were your benchmark for neutrality, how would you know that this was truly neutral?

It's just my (questionable) attempt to communicate how the cables sound, no precision involved, it's not measured.

As for determining neutral, #1 is resolution, #2 is timbre and tone. #1 is fairly objective although I don't know how to measure it. #2 is subjective and very system-dependent. There is also the lack of either pleasant or unpleasant coloration, much of this is easy to identify with practice as it falls into certain categories, i.e. copper sounds a certain way, stranded vs solid-core wire sounds a certain way, etc...

#2 is the issue... the trick is to maximize #1 while achieving #2, then you have the right balance. For some, the D5 is going to be closer to the right balance as it adds more warmth without sacrificing too much resolution. It might actually make sense to make a D4.5 that's halfway in between, but that might be splitting hairs and just causing confusion with too much choice. And as many have found, there's isn't much interest in a zero-warmth cable... most are willing to sacrifice some resolution for some warmth.

I would also say that perception of tone has an effect on resolution, so a warm cable in a warm system might sound bloated and slow while in a neutral system might sound really nice... this explains differences in opinion and experience with different components to some degree.
 

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