Does everything in Munich sound like Magico/ Spectral? Anything tonally rich or not European taste?

KeithR

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I will address the Magico and Spectral being portrayed as lacking in term of tonality. It is time that experience audiophiles stop using those wild generalization especially about brands that have established themselves because of the quality of their output. Spectral electronics do not add much to what is on the medium, they make sure of taking themselves out in ways that many electronics don't. Don't expect any Spectral-based system to sweeten or add anything in the way of an aesthetics to the reproduction. They are the "just-the-facts-ma'm" type of electronics. They amplify the signal as cleanly as possible and serve it to you. Many electronics add their signature to the reproduction, in this interesting world of audiophilia this is seen as a quality, until one realizes that everything sounds the same through this (or not...:)). Magico speaker are the same in the model I have heard. Magico speakers tend to remove themselves in a way that can even unsettle the unaccustomed. THey may be the more noise-free speakers one would have heard. More so than most speakers ( or any) one would have heard. Often with the Magico one has the bizarre impression of them not playing at all.. THe music doesn't seem to come from them... the sound is just .... "there" with nothing added... absence of distortion is unsettling when one is used to it.

ok, so only Magico and Spectral have no sound. I strongly disagree. I tire of these type of analogies. I think Spectral has a *very* definite sound.

Everything has a sound. Magico had a shelved up tweeter for several years so saying a Q series didn't have a sound is incorrect to me - listen to the M3 tweeter and you can hear a *big* improvement. Magicos V, Q, M, and S series all have different tonality- so which has no sound?

As they say, one man's tone is another man's coloration. The people who believe "dry and sterile" is transparent is another one. The use of negative feedback has big implications on some of these responses as does our ears.
 

MadFloyd

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ok, so only Magico and Spectral have no sound. I strongly disagree. I tire of these type of analogies. I think Spectral has a *very* definite sound.

Everything has a sound. Magico had a shelved up tweeter for several years so saying a Q series didn't have a sound is incorrect to me - listen to the M3 tweeter and you can hear a *big* improvement. Magicos V, Q, M, and S series all have different tonality- so which has no sound?

As they say, one man's tone is another man's coloration. The people who believe "dry and sterile" is transparent is another one. The use of negative feedback has big implications on some of these responses as does our ears.

+1

I agree, everything has a sound.
 

FrantzM

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ok, so only Magico and Spectral have no sound. I strongly disagree. I tire of these type of analogies. I think Spectral has a *very* definite sound.

Everything has a sound. Magico had a shelved up tweeter for several years so saying a Q series didn't have a sound is incorrect to me - listen to the M3 tweeter and you can hear a *big* improvement. Magicos V, Q, M, and S series all have different tonality- so which has no sound?

As they say, one man's tone is another man's coloration. The people who believe "dry and sterile" is transparent is another one. The use of negative feedback has big implications on some of these responses as does our ears.


Let's not lose ourselves to hyperbole. I didn't claim that Magico has no coloration. Their's is however low and lower than many other, celebrated speakers. Same with Spectral...
As for the perception of treble... Often is the upper midrange that gives that impression of glare... the region over 5 KHz...
 

caesar

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Easy, guys. Everyone has a taste or preference in this hobby. Nothing wrong with anyone's preference!

But if the Munich show caters to only a certain customer / sonic signature, there is no point going there for those who don't share that
 

PeterA

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ok, so only Magico and Spectral have no sound. I strongly disagree. I tire of these type of analogies. I think Spectral has a *very* definite sound.

Everything has a sound. Magico had a shelved up tweeter for several years so saying a Q series didn't have a sound is incorrect to me - listen to the M3 tweeter and you can hear a *big* improvement. Magicos V, Q, M, and S series all have different tonality- so which has no sound?

As they say, one man's tone is another man's coloration. The people who believe "dry and sterile" is transparent is another one. The use of negative feedback has big implications on some of these responses as does our ears.

Keith, I don't think anyone is claiming that Magico and Spectral have NO sound. Just less coloration that many or most other brands. Yes, I suppose everything does have a sound, but some components are much easier to identify as such than others. I agree the newest tweeter, in the MPro and M3, is an improvement over past tweeters, though the Ring Radiator in the old wooden Magicos is very nice.

Regarding tone and coloration: if colorations (distortions) are minimal, an instrument's tone as captured in the best recordings transcends interpretations of whether it is one man's tone or another's coloration. It just is the tone of the instrument, well captured and reproduced. I do not happen to think that "dry and sterile" is transparent. Those are colorations too, just like others.

I also agree that the various Magico series do sound different. They all have slight colorations, but as Magico continues to develop its technologies, those colorations, to my ears, are becoming less identifiable while the speakers become more transparent, resolving, and capable. IME.
 

PeterA

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Easy, guys. Everyone has a taste or preference in this hobby. Nothing wrong with anyone's preference!

But if the Munich show caters to only a certain customer / sonic signature, there is no point going there for those who don't share that

Caesar, your comments are the first I've read that the Munich show caters to only a certain customer / sonic signature. Are you saying that all the gear in the many images I see - vintage horns, modern horns, tubes, turntables, analog, SS, various speaker typologies, at all price points - these all sound the same. TW Akustic and TechDAS, Western Electric and Avant Garde, Cessaro and Magico, Audio Note and Solution? I just find that very hard to believe.
 

caesar

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Caesar, your comments are the first I've read that the Munich show caters to only a certain customer / sonic signature. Are you saying that all the gear in the many images I see - vintage horns, modern horns, tubes, turntables, analog, SS, various speaker typologies, at all price points - these all sound the same. TW Akustic and TechDAS, Western Electric and Avant Garde, Cessaro and Magico, Audio Note and Solution? I just find that very hard to believe.

Peter, have you been to the show? Are the brands you listed on active or static display? Unfortunately, reading the show reports from the usual suspects one can conclude that folks are going for certain sound. Magico sounded the best just about anyone has ever heard them sound by talking to normal people at the show, using CAT gear at Axpona last year (but obviously not to their marketers pretending to be audio journalists who represent them). But then a month later, they play with Soulution at Munich for a completely different sound. Makes one think of the customer they are trying to reach...
 

bonzo75

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Peter, have you been to the show? Are the brands you listed on active or static display? Unfortunately, reading the show reports from the usual suspects one can conclude that folks are going for certain sound. Magico sounded the best just about anyone has ever heard them sound by talking to normal people at the show, using CAT gear at Axpona last year (but obviously not to their marketers pretending to be audio journalists who represent them). But then a month later, they play with Soulution at Munich for a completely different sound. Makes one think of the customer they are trying to reach...

I have been 3 years in a row and going this year. They have a lot of Techdas and Kronos, lots of analog, some usual brands like Wilson and Magico, many horns - tune audio Anima, Cesarro, horns universum, jbl, vox Olympian, western electric, Logan, audio exklusiv, TAD, Stenheim, digital, analog. No point trying to forcibly classify it.
 

MadFloyd

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Magico sounded the best just about anyone has ever heard them sound by talking to normal people at the show, using CAT gear at Axpona last year

So you've said before, but I don't think "just about anyone has ever heard them sound" is anywhere close to correct. I wasn't there, but did ask a few people and got lukewarm responses. That combo is definitely not for everyone.
 

caesar

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So you've said before, but I don't think "just about anyone has ever heard them sound" is anywhere close to correct. I wasn't there, but did ask a few people and got lukewarm responses. That combo is definitely not for everyone.

Obviously you and I did not speak to the same people but I agree with your point here - and I also think you are helping make my point of this thread - that there are different sounds that appeal to different people....
 

caesar

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I have been 3 years in a row and going this year. They have a lot of Techdas and Kronos, lots of analog, some usual brands like Wilson and Magico, many horns - tune audio Anima, Cesarro, horns universum, jbl, vox Olympian, western electric, Logan, audio exklusiv, TAD, Stenheim, digital, analog. No point trying to forcibly classify it.

Thanks, Bonzo. Munich looks like it takes place in an airport hangar - a lot of glass/ gorgeous modern architecture (due to unfortunate historical reasons). And looking at the pictures, it is very hard to tell who has a static display and who is actually playing music...

Kibitzing around is always good fun at audio shows, but is the sound any good? Are you able to get good data points from those horn systems?
 

caesar

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Like tt's not all transports are equal either, so I'm talking about quality transports and digital links. IMO silver disc spinning in high quality transports with good digital links are much more dynamic, organic and closer to analog than any computer source I ever heard. I don't know what it is, wether it's USB/ethernet/Firewire, power supplies in the computer or the way hard drives including transistor ones are read that kill the sound but computer audio always sounds the same to me, very digital and homogenized and sterile and if that's your source, where do you go from there? I don't know anyone streaming or using computer as a source sitting through an entire album, if you noticed they're always searching and changing tracks :); rarely if ever have I seen them sit through an entire album.

I still use the Weiss and honestly I just don't see any significant improvement in DACs over the years, all the latest & greatest I've heard still retain their digital nature and no amount of computing can transform digital into something that it's not. As far as transports go they're a dying breed now days which is a shame.



Of course there are but to Caesars point majority of new systems I hear at shows and people's homes sound that way.

david

Hi DDK,
This is a very eye-opening comment!!!!

And upon reflection, I am not surprised by this at all. After all, many digital people have long abandoned preamps in favor of using the volume controls on their DACs - to, in my opinion, more HORRIBLE results.
 

bonzo75

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Thanks, Bonzo. Munich looks like it takes place in an airport hangar - a lot of glass/ gorgeous modern architecture (due to unfortunate historical reasons). And looking at the pictures, it is very hard to tell who has a static display and who is actually playing music...

Kibitzing around is always good fun at audio shows, but is the sound any good? Are you able to get good data points from those horn systems?

The horns actually sound closer to their real sound than other speakers. But yes, I really find it ridiculous when people opine on electronics from listening to it at Munich. Speakers - if they sound good it's a good thing, but a negative sound could be because the of the glass or thin walls causing bass loss, in which case you need to audition outside the show
 

MadFloyd

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Obviously you and I did not speak to the same people but I agree with your point here - and I also think you are helping make my point of this thread - that there are different sounds that appeal to different people....

Absolutely - we all have different tastes. I am no fan of the Soulution sound for example. I think if you just read TAS reviews of the Munich shows you might get the impression that it's focused on that type of sound because that is what TAS likes. Valin would immediately walk out of any room with CAT electronics - or anything that was of a similar euphonic sound.
 

DaveyF

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Wilson Audio - an unique way in large orchestral music. Humanization of the realistic of the microdetail of human voice, making it more lifelike. Music that needs great soundstage depth layering - such as chamber music. A permanent waltz, as a good friend says. Shows the inside of classic music. Perfect for night-club atmospheric recordings or opera.

Magico - great playing live amplified music, that has different dynamics than acoustical music. The speaker to listen to Pat Metheny "One Quiet Night". Loves the type of music usually played in stadiums and similar places, that can sound great but I do not listen in my system. Welcomes rock guitars and drums. People who play instruments seem to like them. Analog freaks seem to love them as they are great listening tools for turntable tweaking.

Sonus Faber - sopranos and strings, surely. Loves AliaVox recordings. Forget and listen. The Aida was in different league of the brand (here represented by the Homage models) , perhaps halfway between the Wilson's and the Magico's, having an almost "electrostatic" balance, but excellent dynamics.


Disclaimer - short and incomplete opinions extremely influenced by the speakers/systems I have owned, my preferences and my friends systems. In my country these brands are all distributed by the same company, I often listen to them in the same large room.


This thread seems to be all about generalizations. Unfortunately, imo, several members seem to like lumping various speaker brands and gear with their own personal biases.
Ian, how one can classify CAT gear and by your post ...all CAT gear, as euphonic sounding is a very odd statement. Perhaps in your experience that is the case,but not in many others, including mine. Does Valin believe that??
 

RogerD

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Hi DDK,
This is a very eye-opening comment!!!!

And upon reflection, I am not surprised by this at all. After all, many digital people have long abandoned preamps in favor of using the volume controls on their DACs - to, in my opinion, more HORRIBLE results.

Pure bullshit
 

BlueFox

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This thread seems to be all about generalizations. Unfortunately, imo, several members seem to like lumping various speaker brands and gear with their own personal biases.

IMO, this thread is a troll designed to start arguments, but trying to be clever by 'hiding' the troll as a question.

When the OP has nonsense such as,

"the show appeals to guys who find realism in the fast, lean, clean sound symbolized by Magico/ Spectral combination and championed by reviewers like "Sterile" Jon Valin and "Worthless to the Audio Fan" Robert Harley. "

it shows it's real purpose. At least that's how I read it.

The impression one gets from reading show reports from Munich is that the show appeals to guys who find realism in the fast, lean, clean sound symbolized by Magico/ Spectral combination and championed by reviewers like "Sterile" Jon Valin and "Worthless to the Audio Fan" Robert Harley.

If one makes a trip to Munich, can one find tonally rich gear, full-bodied (not syrupy or fat!) sound with big bass wallop as well, or is the European market only interested in that more lean sound?
 

asiufy

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I agree... I can't be the only one to find these threads useless, and frankly, absurd. I mean, we're not talking about a small hobbyist event. Does the OP really believe the single biggest high-end audio show in the world really favors one very specific sound, one that he doesn't like, and his imaginary nemesis happens to like?

I'll attend my first Munich show this year, and one of the reasons I'm coming is for the wide variety of stuff that's usually shown.
 

FrantzM

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IMO, this thread is a troll designed to start arguments, but trying to be clever by 'hiding' the troll as a question.

When the OP has nonsense such as,

"the show appeals to guys who find realism in the fast, lean, clean sound symbolized by Magico/ Spectral combination and championed by reviewers like "Sterile" Jon Valin and "Worthless to the Audio Fan" Robert Harley. "

it shows it's real purpose. At least that's how I read it.

I agree... I can't be the only one to find these threads useless, and frankly, absurd. I mean, we're not talking about a small hobbyist event. Does the OP really believe the single biggest high-end audio show in the world really favors one very specific sound, one that he doesn't like, and his imaginary nemesis happens to like?

I'll attend my first Munich show this year, and one of the reasons I'm coming is for the wide variety of stuff that's usually shown.

These threads are so stupid. I mean really. What's the point?

+1

Thanks guys!
 

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