Magnets in Audio: How Do They Work?

Robert · Dec 18, 2010

I have become a staunch believer in the magical properties of magnets, in terms of modulating current. While this subject is sure to cause some skepticism and even dismissal, I am convinced that this is the missing link in many systems. I have large magnetic modules in my power conditioner, grounding unit, and now a power cable. What they provide is a sense of realness - dynamics, depth, space, roundness, energy, clarity, effortlessness. Everytime I add a component with magnets, the system increases a clear notch or two.

Can anyone provide insight on what large magnets do to an electrical signal?

ack · Dec 18, 2010

Probably they are having the same effect as simple ferrite beads; in other words, magnetism has nothing to do with it, just the magnetic material.

Steve Williams · Dec 18, 2010

Man, I haven't heard ferrite beads mentioned in ages

kach22i · Dec 18, 2010

The "Right-Hand Rule" rules.

Ethan Winer · Dec 18, 2010

Robert said:
Can anyone provide insight on what large magnets do to an electrical signal?

Magnets in the AC power path versus in the audio path? They shouldn't do anything at all to the audio. I've never even heard of this. I'm with Tom - what commercial audio products use magnets?

--Ethan

tony ky ma · Dec 18, 2010

Robert said:
Can anyone provide insight on what large magnets do to an electrical signal?

Hi Robert
Big transformer in power conditioner is working as store up energy which can have a quick supply to change sound quality,in the power supply of a tube gear, a choke works as a regulator, it will sound better than a active silicon device regulator. in audio path, they do different job as coupling or impedance match but it will depend on the quality by itself. still I like transformer coupling is better than caps in tube gear circuit
tony ma

DonH50 · Dec 18, 2010

I = C dV/dt; V = L di/dt

Capacitors resist changes in voltage; inductors (including transformers) resist changes in current. Not sure that adds anything, just figured I'd throw it out to ponder.

Steve, there are ferrite "beads" in many things, including (I imagine) quite a few audio components. They are surface-mount little beasts now, natch.

Steve Williams · Dec 19, 2010

the last ferrite beads I bought came from Radio Shack several years ago that fit around the ends of my interconnects

Robert · Dec 19, 2010

I am talking about large magnets that can modulate the current or the signal. This has been called 'speed of light' technology. Products include Tripooint Audio, NVS Sound cables, and Virtual Dynamics cables. Magnets have also been used in modifying components.

There is no doubt that they work in my system, and not just due to a dampening or shielding effect. I have not found a satisfactory non-hand-waving explanation. Any physicists or engineers who could explain.

Steve Williams · Dec 19, 2010

Hi Robert

What do you mean when you say "they work in my system"?

What differences are you hearing

Robert · Dec 19, 2010

Effortless, dynamic, unrestricted, detailed, big, natural. These are the generalities. The Tripoint Troy and Spartan have been in my system for some time. I just got a power cable from NVS Sound with magnets, and the effect is remarkable.

MylesBAstor · Dec 19, 2010

DonH50 said:
I = C dV/dt; V = L di/dt

Capacitors resist changes in voltage; inductors (including transformers) resist changes in current. Not sure that adds anything, just figured I'd throw it out to ponder.

Steve, there are ferrite "beads" in many things, including (I imagine) quite a few audio components. They are surface-mount little beasts now, natch.

I always felt that ferrite beads degraded, rather than enhanced, the sound of a system. And rarely did I ever hear them remove EM interference, no matter the winding pattern around the ferrite core.

If you really want to hear the worst in beads, put one on the left channel IC, the other on the right channel IC and let them lie next to other; then separate the beads by moving them in opposite directions and listen. Bad both ways; worse next to each other.

Robert · Dec 19, 2010

I'm not talking about ferrite beads. These are large magents, each weighing pounds. For a cable, it does not encompass the entire length. They are not for damping.

While it is nice to have technical information, some manufacturers refuse to post any because of fear that others will copy their designs. Patents have little meaning in the world at large. While some of the material may not be incredibly expensive, I do believe considerable R&D is required.

Why would a system not be good if one could hear the effect of damping a component? Not sure I follow.

DonH50 · Dec 19, 2010

The ones I was thinking about are deep inside the components, not used as discussed here. I am going to stay out of this one, I think. I have not used large ferrites as discussed here in ages; my experience (outside power transformers) is primarily in very high frequency (RF/mW/mmW) circuits. I have very limited experience with ferromagnetics used to enhance interconnects and speaker cables.

MylesBAstor · Dec 19, 2010

Robert said:
I'm not talking about ferrite beads. These are large magents, each weighing pounds. For a cable, it does not encompass the entire length. They are not for damping.

While it is nice to have technical information, some manufacturers refuse to post any because of fear that others will copy their designs. Patents have little meaning in the world at large. While some of the material may not be incredibly expensive, I do believe considerable R&D is required.

Why would a system not be good if one could hear the effect of damping a component? Not sure I follow.

I understand Robert

Was just trying to differentiate effects eg. I would't try ferrite beads.

Gedlee · Dec 19, 2010

A magnet is a static device, i.e. it carries a static magnetic field. This static magnet field does not really even see any AC magnetic fields imposed upon it, except by virtue of the fact that the magnet material itself has a magnetic permiability. What this means is that to an AC field, the magnet has the same effect whether it is actually magnetized or not. There is a small hysteresis effect of a static field on the AC field, but this is a small nonlinear effect compared to the bulk linear permiability effect.

To me the botom line is that it sounds a little like someone is blowing some smoke (or inhaling it, depending).

Ethan Winer · Dec 20, 2010

Robert said:
While it is nice to have technical information, some manufacturers refuse to post any because of fear that others will copy their designs.

Ah, so that explains it.

--Ethan

Ethan Winer · Dec 20, 2010

Gedlee said:
A magnet is a static device, i.e. it carries a static magnetic field.

Good point. Magnets might have some DC effect, but certainly not for audio which is AC.

--Ethan

Robert · Dec 20, 2010

Well, this is all very interesting. The only problem is, they do work. Now, how could that be?

As with many things in audio, there are a dozen sane reasons why something shouldn't make a difference. Maybe they are magic?

microstrip · Dec 20, 2010

Magnetism is not an easy subject in physics. I have never before thought about the main subject of this thread, but I would be very cautious before discarding its effects in electronic amplifiers.

Please remember that one vacuum device used to measure small amounts of light, the photomultiplier, is very sensitive to magnetic fields - its sensitivity can vary by one order of magnitude when we apply a magnetic field, just because of the interaction between the electron movement and the magnetic field. The Hall effect, an interaction between the current and the magnetic field is used to measure magnetic fields using a semiconductor device. Also, there are many manufacturers who avoid ferromagnetic cases, preferring non magnetic materials in their equipment. Why are they doing it?

Many people (myself included ) accept that we can hear cable differences or mains treatment devices, something it is not currently possible to explain scientifically. Some of the magnetic devices have very powerful magnets, using Neodymium and other rare earth materials, and are placed very close to circuits. May be they can modify the sound - I am not saying improving, just changing it.

Please do not consider my post as an endorsement of this devices - but we should keep an open mind and know the phenomena in depth, before saying simple basic science excludes something.

Magnets in Audio: How Do They Work?

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