Discrete Ladder DAC price implosion

Legolas

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So, anyone heard some of these ultra cheap discrete DACs yet? I am dead curious if they are close to say the TotalDAC or Aqua Formula, or are just poorly and cheaply implemented Chinese CXXP.
 

hurka

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Apr 14, 2017
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Yes,Ultra Cheap ,Ultra Neutral(R2r ladder) and powered 5 independent ultracapacitor stages.
 

EVOLVIST

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Apr 20, 2017
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Metrum Pavane or Adagio DACs, which are sub-$10,000 and are full 24-bit resolution - not just in theory (not that you could hear the dynamic range inherent in 24 bits).

It's interesting to note that the Adagio is said to be equal or beat the Aqua Formula, and I wouldn't doubt it. http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/metrum3/1.html

I heard the original Metrum Pavane about 2 years ago and it beat the Yggy soundly, only being edged out by the Chord DAVE. However, now the Pavane is Level 3, and one can be had new for only $5629 + shipping. The Adagio, with built in preamp is $6259 plus shipping.

I have a Lampizator Golden Gate that I'm getting rid of for rat cheap, to either get the Pavane or the Adagio. In other words, being better than the one I heard 2 years ago...? Okay, I'm in. That's what I would call an "implosion."
 

wisnon

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Dec 12, 2011
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LoL.

Make sure you audition them side by side and not get swayed by 6 moons poetry. I have a GG too and its miles ahead of the Pavane r most any other Dac I have heard, including the DAVE which I like.

6moons has no appreciation for quality DSD and that alone makes me dismiss them. I adore quality dSD and PC also, BTW. I dont like the YGGY from my time listening to it.
 

EVOLVIST

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Apr 20, 2017
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LoL.

Make sure you audition them side by side and not get swayed by 6 moons poetry. I have a GG too and its miles ahead of the Pavane r most any other Dac I have heard, including the DAVE which I like.

6moons has no appreciation for quality DSD and that alone makes me dismiss them. I adore quality dSD and PC also, BTW. I dont like the YGGY from my time listening to it.

Well, I don't have the R2R with my GG. I'm not sure if it makes a difference in their architecture since they basically told me it was a toss-up. Hmmmm...

At any rate, I guess I'm like 6moons in that my appreciation for DSD is only as good as the DSD master, inasmuch as I've heard crap ass DSD masters and good ones, too. If the master was done in PCM, first, as it's often the case, and then upsampled to DSD, I'm going to go for the PCM every time.

I have to admit, though, that the 100D tubes that came with the GG are some pretty fast tubes.
 

wisnon

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I have had both and also first gen R2R and now with firmware update. PCM is da bomb now and with much less gain than before, so I can use Kr242 tube now. Also got the superclocks/DSD512 and general refresh. ..Totally pleased!!! No reason to look at any other Dac.

RBCD upsampled to 512 c an be so amazing on the right tracks.
 

wisnon

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Well, I don't have the R2R with my GG. I'm not sure if it makes a difference in their architecture since they basically told me it was a toss-up. Hmmmm...

At any rate, I guess I'm like 6moons in that my appreciation for DSD is only as good as the DSD master, inasmuch as I've heard crap ass DSD masters and good ones, too. If the master was done in PCM, first, as it's often the case, and then upsampled to DSD, I'm going to go for the PCM every time.

I have to admit, though, that the 100D tubes that came with the GG are some pretty fast tubes.

I have TONS of DSD...lots not even available in PCM. Yes quality matters, but a vinyl rip I have of Satchmo tells me that sometimes PCM takes a back seat...other times no, of course.

Lampi guys have their favourites but to me R2R wins hands down.

I HATE the psvane 101d tubes, cheap and expensive ones both. I had some weak vintage WE 101ds and those were way better. I have a pair of the expensive ones lightly used for sale, if you are expensive...i will do half price, so $350 shipping included.

Kr242 and Lampi anniv mesh gloves are my favourites. i hear that EML mesh PX4 is dynamite too.
 

bonzo75

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Well, I don't have the R2R with my GG. I'm not sure if it makes a difference in their architecture since they basically told me it was a toss-up. Hmmmm...

At any rate, I guess I'm like 6moons in that my appreciation for DSD is only as good as the DSD master, inasmuch as I've heard crap ass DSD masters and good ones, too. If the master was done in PCM, first, as it's often the case, and then upsampled to DSD, I'm going to go for the PCM every time.

I have to admit, though, that the 100D tubes that came with the GG are some pretty fast tubes.

Feel free to change, just do a proper side by side compare before instead of going by reviews...
 

EVOLVIST

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Apr 20, 2017
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Feel free to change, just do a proper side by side compare before instead of going by reviews...

Admittedly I'm going by 2 years of memory here with the Pavane Level 1. I'm just thinking what a musical instrument it was.

I don't know, I'm still digging on the Lampi, but I was addressing the original question here about R2R "implosion." I have little doubt that for under 10 Gs a quality R2R DAC can be achieved. Of course we know that there are different levels of heaven. Heh. Jacob's ladder goes both ways, in this case.

P. S. - As a professional writer, myself, I generally loathe 6moon's reviews. All of that too-clever rhetoric takes away from what they're actually trying to communicate.
 

bonzo75

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Admittedly I'm going by 2 years of memory here with the Pavane Level 1. I'm just thinking what a musical instrument it was.

I don't know, I'm still digging on the Lampi, but I was addressing the original question here about R2R "implosion." I have little doubt that for under 10 Gs a quality R2R DAC can be achieved. Of course we know that there are different levels of heaven. Heh. Jacob's ladder goes both ways, in this case.

P. S. - As a professional writer, myself, I generally loathe 6moon's reviews. All of that too-clever rhetoric takes away from what they're actually trying to communicate.

I compared R2R and non-R2R of golden gate, I think R2R was way superior, on dynamics, stage, bass, ability to see through the music.even the R2R golden Atlantic was much better than the non R2R big 7. Either way, all I will say is compare. Two years memory....and the Lampi gets tweaked every now and then, the golden gate has come a long way over the last two years, most of the 101d tubes hit sold off and upgraded to much better ones, same with rectifiers.

Reviews or not, it is best to compare and see.
 

Legolas

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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Metrum Pavane or Adagio DACs, which are sub-$10,000 and are full 24-bit resolution - not just in theory (not that you could hear the dynamic range inherent in 24 bits).

It's interesting to note that the Adagio is said to be equal or beat the Aqua Formula, and I wouldn't doubt it. http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/metrum3/1.html

I heard the original Metrum Pavane about 2 years ago and it beat the Yggy soundly, only being edged out by the Chord DAVE. However, now the Pavane is Level 3, and one can be had new for only $5629 + shipping. The Adagio, with built in preamp is $6259 plus shipping.

I have a Lampizator Golden Gate that I'm getting rid of for rat cheap, to either get the Pavane or the Adagio. In other words, being better than the one I heard 2 years ago...? Okay, I'm in. That's what I would call an "implosion."

I hope you are not a dealer? Have you some pics of your system?
 

EVOLVIST

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Apr 20, 2017
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I hope you are not a dealer? Have you some pics of your system?

Ummmm...no? Not even close? You want a pic of my Lampi sitting on the floor where I've been swapping out amps and cables? I can show you my Eggleston Andra IIs, as well, on both of sides of a god awful hutch that my wife refuses to sell or even paint. Or, how about a pic of my Lampi holding a sign that reads, "Will work for no dealer?" :D
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Metrum Pavane or Adagio DACs, which are sub-$10,000 and are full 24-bit resolution - not just in theory (not that you could hear the dynamic range inherent in 24 bits).

It's interesting to note that the Adagio is said to be equal or beat the Aqua Formula, and I wouldn't doubt it. http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/metrum3/1.html

I heard the original Metrum Pavane about 2 years ago and it beat the Yggy soundly, only being edged out by the Chord DAVE. However, now the Pavane is Level 3, and one can be had new for only $5629 + shipping. The Adagio, with built in preamp is $6259 plus shipping.

I have a Lampizator Golden Gate that I'm getting rid of for rat cheap, to either get the Pavane or the Adagio. In other words, being better than the one I heard 2 years ago...? Okay, I'm in. That's what I would call an "implosion."

You can now get the same R2R modules that are in the Adagio as OEM. Seems tempting and could save a lot of $$$.
 

wisnon

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Ummmm...no? Not even close? You want a pic of my Lampi sitting on the floor where I've been swapping out amps and cables? I can show you my Eggleston Andra IIs, as well, on both of sides of a god awful hutch that my wife refuses to sell or even paint. Or, how about a pic of my Lampi holding a sign that reads, "Will work for no dealer?" :D
You need to get fuggly speakers to pay her back. LoL
 

Legolas

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Dec 27, 2015
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Ummmm...no? Not even close? You want a pic of my Lampi sitting on the floor where I've been swapping out amps and cables? I can show you my Eggleston Andra IIs, as well, on both of sides of a god awful hutch that my wife refuses to sell or even paint. Or, how about a pic of my Lampi holding a sign that reads, "Will work for no dealer?" :D

Accepted and I apologise. I am sensitive to shilling and some dealers do 'announce' gear on here in public posts. It was the price list inc shipping that sent me off on one LOL.

Back to the OP, I do think the R-2R sector is very active right now, and in a good way. There is a healthy DIY group building discrete R-2R DACs at real world prices as well. I would love to have ago, but would look to fit a tube regulated PS and tube line stage to support a discrete board. The Soekris board is 230 USD, and you could probably set 2K USD max in parts for the rest inc chassis for a tubed DAC.
 

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