Has anyone compared directly in a familiar system the Wilson-Benesch Torus to another well-known subwoofer?
Wilson-Benesch Torus versus JL Audio/Paradigm/REL/Seaton/Velodyne/Etc.?
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
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Comparing subs will be tough as it will depend on set up skills. If I was to buy a sub I would buy the JLs just so that I could get Marty to help dial-in over the phone. Alternatively if you can get someone like Mark Seaton to help, then buy Seaton subs. I doubt at this level you will be able to plonk down a sub without spending considerable time setting them up right
Try Mihalis on AGon? He has very positive things to say about these and uses them in a 2nd system with Magico Minis
I had a Krell Master reference and i never listen a sub better than this,200 kg about of weight with 2 15" woofer with 7 cm max excursion and 6.000 watt of power.
I used with a monovia Audiotekne CB,cut at 40/50 hz,very impressive
To find this second hand can be a bargain
I used with a monovia Audiotekne CB,cut at 40/50 hz,very impressive
To find this second hand can be a bargain
Many of us have heard a subwoofer we liked.
Did you ever compare directly the Krell subwoofer to the W-B Torus subwoofer?
Did you ever compare directly the Krell subwoofer to the W-B Torus subwoofer?
No because i had Krell 15 years ago,but i remember very well his performance.
I know very well Torus because my friend in Milan is Italian distributor of WB.
Also Bonzo listened
I listen a lot of time and i like a lot because is very natural,deep bass but don't dirty the mid bass frequency
Absolutly to listen,i think is better than Rel,Velodyne and others
I always listen with small speaker like WB and i don't know with big speaker how can work
I know very well Torus because my friend in Milan is Italian distributor of WB.
Also Bonzo listened
I listen a lot of time and i like a lot because is very natural,deep bass but don't dirty the mid bass frequency
Absolutly to listen,i think is better than Rel,Velodyne and others
I always listen with small speaker like WB and i don't know with big speaker how can work
I thought the Krell Master Reference sub was the best sub I have ever heard although the Wilson Thor Hammer is also but even larger. The largest sub I ever owned was the Wilson XS which was 82" tall and boasted 2 18" drivers. My house would shake when I played certain passages. I powered it with a Krell Mcx750
People rarely sold them gian. Why did you part with yours (other than its size and weight)
People rarely sold them gian. Why did you part with yours (other than its size and weight)
Really another better sub i had
In 1992 i had Soundlab A1 and later i bought the sub mono B1, high 2.20 mt and large 1.10 mt each
I had Mark Levinson ML 6B preamp,cross mono LNC2 and 8 mono N20 using 2 bridge for each speaker, A1 and B1
Really never listen one sub go down like this and with his power
The organ recording of Miller & Kreisel was more than incredible.
Also all the whole system was incredible,thinking we were in 1992
Then 1 year later i knew Be Yamamura,he also lived some months in my home and we went with our girlfriends in mountain 3 times to sky and we become very friend
Then i told him what he was thinking about the sound of my system.
This seems a joke and he answer,dear Gianluigi this sound is terrible.
Then he did for me one preamp mono with 2 power supply,4 boxes and 4 boxes power amp with 845 and all with transformer in superpermalloy,all together 260 kg,and i really understood a new incredible sound better than Mark Levinson and all we had in Italy in that period like Rowland,Cello,Jadis,ARC,YBA,ecc,ecc
This was first time we could listen i and my friend one japanise tube amp with triode.
Audio tekene and Audio Note was not yet imported in Italy
So i sold everything and started with Yamamura,then Audiotekne and then Kondo since 1993 to 2015
In 1992 i had Soundlab A1 and later i bought the sub mono B1, high 2.20 mt and large 1.10 mt each
I had Mark Levinson ML 6B preamp,cross mono LNC2 and 8 mono N20 using 2 bridge for each speaker, A1 and B1
Really never listen one sub go down like this and with his power
The organ recording of Miller & Kreisel was more than incredible.
Also all the whole system was incredible,thinking we were in 1992
Then 1 year later i knew Be Yamamura,he also lived some months in my home and we went with our girlfriends in mountain 3 times to sky and we become very friend
Then i told him what he was thinking about the sound of my system.
This seems a joke and he answer,dear Gianluigi this sound is terrible.
Then he did for me one preamp mono with 2 power supply,4 boxes and 4 boxes power amp with 845 and all with transformer in superpermalloy,all together 260 kg,and i really understood a new incredible sound better than Mark Levinson and all we had in Italy in that period like Rowland,Cello,Jadis,ARC,YBA,ecc,ecc
This was first time we could listen i and my friend one japanise tube amp with triode.
Audio tekene and Audio Note was not yet imported in Italy
So i sold everything and started with Yamamura,then Audiotekne and then Kondo since 1993 to 2015
IMHO you can not separate subwoofer performance from the main speakers you are using. What I remember from a subwoofer is not how low it went, but how well it blended in the system, creating image, scale and easiness. Again IMHO asking for the best subwoofer in absolute terms is meaningless.
The best performances using subs I have listened were always of the matching sub and speakers - Krell Master sub + LAT 1000, Wilson WatchDog + Wilson Watt+Puppy 7 and Martin Logan Descent with Prodigy. Surely this was many years ago, long before DSP and the new modern crossover designs. It is why sometime in the next months I will start playing with the JLAudio JL113 mk2's and the CR1 in my system.
The best performances using subs I have listened were always of the matching sub and speakers - Krell Master sub + LAT 1000, Wilson WatchDog + Wilson Watt+Puppy 7 and Martin Logan Descent with Prodigy. Surely this was many years ago, long before DSP and the new modern crossover designs. It is why sometime in the next months I will start playing with the JLAudio JL113 mk2's and the CR1 in my system.
Sure the most and only important thing of one subwoofer is how well it blended.
Is very very difficult to put one sub in one system because near always dirty the mid/midbass
Even with my Krell sometimes i prefer without also putting at 40 hz with 48 db
Is very very difficult to put one sub in one system because near always dirty the mid/midbass
Even with my Krell sometimes i prefer without also putting at 40 hz with 48 db
I seriously considered buying one 2nd hand about 2-3 years ago, but its age is what concerned me. It's got a built-in FPB600 series amp as i recall...which today could well require work, capacitors, etc, and at 200kg in weight, that really gave me pause from buying. Otherwise, that would have been amazing given that I believe Dan D'Agostino designed them to go with his own personal Wilson X1/Grand Slamms.
I cannot comment on other subs, only on the WB Torus with WB's previous model to the Cardinal. Listen every week for over a year, with all Naim 500 series, and Odin cables. Sound was great and won't go into it like a reviewer. But, was not overly impressed with the Torus (for the money). Of course, it gave the WB speakers more depth and weight, but not enough of the "slam" factor. Maybe it was just me. My Venture's might not go as lower, but they have more punch in the mid to upper bass, which I like.
I was not aware of this last detail. I always thought they were designed for the Krell LAT1000 - perhaps the LAT1000 were also referenced to the X1's.
Anyway, part of the receipt of the Krell Master sub for great bass were the accelerometers fitted to the cones - it was a servo design.BTW, looking for details of old Krell speakers I just found a mint pair of black LAT1000 in audiogon at a nice price - a great buy, in Europe they would immediately disappear!
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IMO 2 channel sub implementation and user requirements basically fall into 2 categories: ultra low bass and low frequency room mode management which primarily depends on your xover point and of course room placement. But what's rarely talked about is bass quality. IME I've owned Dahlquist, Pioneer, Martin Logan, M&K, Rel Strata and Storm and currently own a JL Audio F112. The quality of bass is quite different with the JL Audio which is substantially better than the former subs. I say this as a way to help hone in on what you are looking for in a sub(s) and that they all sound different with different levels of quality. The higher you xover the more quality will matter.
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