long term audio guy seeking vinyl comeback

Darby

Active Member
Jun 23, 2015
10
0
31
Hi to all.
I am new here, having only posted a few posts several years back and I am looking for some opinions on suitable turntable options but first a bit of background.

I have been an audio enthusiast since I was 13 and have had all manner of very high quality systems over several decades including many high end turntables.

Back in the late 80's my 1500+ record collection was stolen and destroyed in a fire, many were irreplaceable and I had no heart to continue in vinyl,such was my devastation, so I gradually adopted compact disc as a music format. The early players were of course, exponentially inferior to my vinyl set up, but as improvements became evident I have eventually come to a point where I was/am very satisfied with my system.

It is,by no means, high end as I just left the never ending carousel of change-for-change-sake well and truly behind. I now have a Luxman Class A integrated and Luxman D-05 and Rega Saturn cd players,feeding Kelly KT-3 and B&W PM1 speakers,with good cables and stands. Modest indeed, but it always moves me and I no longer have the need to impress anyone or be the kid -with- the -coolest system.

Now to the crux of my post.
I am for various reasons wanting to return to vinyl, not as a replacement for my large CD library, but just to run concurrently with and be an enhancement to, my music listening. I don't plan on ascending the heights of my vinyl salad days, but given my background, I just could not listen to anything that was not musical,or which failed to incite an emotional response to the music.

My cd based system absolutely does that, but everyone is urging me to try vinyl again because it just sounds better so I purchased a vintage JVC direct drive QL-5 and had it professionally serviced and set up. I also had a brand new Denon 301 LOMC cart fitted.

Fast forward a few weeks and I am here wondering where the magic of vinyl went. In comparison to my cd through the same amp, same speakers, cables room etc and on the exact same album on CD and vinyl in direct AB testing, I cannot ,with the best will in the world, work out why my CD makes me sit and become lost in the music and the same music on vinyl sounds thin,hollow and one dimensional.

Of course I get the fact that the QL-5 isn't high end but the Denon is a very decent cart ( brand new ) and the turntable has been tweaked by a very talented friend who lives and breathes vinyl and 'tables and absolutely knows how to get the best from any TT.

I do apologise for the long post, but it is necessary to establish context to my question and request for assistance and suggestions, so the question is, what level turntable do I need so that it is
A. Competitive with my CD players in re production quality.......... and
B. Gives me a similar amount of emotional engagement with the music ?

I really do want this to work and I really do seek the vinyl magic and I must also stress that this is not intended as a discussion on the merits of one format over the other.

So the simple question is how do I get the mojo and what do I need to do/buy in a TT/cart to at least equal my cd replay, or as many people tell me, surpass it?

Any and all reasonable suggestions and opinions are most welcome

Thanks for reading this diatribe
 

treitz3

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
5,474
994
1,290
The tube lair in beautiful Rock Hill, SC
Hi Darby and if I haven't said so before, please allow me to offer you a very warm welcome to the What's Best Forum (or welcome back!).

Wow, at the risk of unintentionally offending you and your buddy that re-did the QL-5, it sounds to me like something is amiss with that LP rig. Thin, hollow and one dimensional should not be the words to describe what the gear you listed should bring to the table. I have a humble (read poor man's, even compared to your kit) LP setup and those descriptive words are the complete opposite of what I am experiencing. In other words, I don't think at this point that throwing money at the issue is the problem. It sounds like this has perhaps turned into a diagnostic issue. I have heard your CDP in a rig of the same level and IME, the LP should offer the complete opposite of thin, hollow and one dimensional compared to the Rega. It should also bring back the sound stage a few feet, if not more.

Do you have any other cartridge, TT, phono pre or even cables to swap out to see if the issue remains?

Tom
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2011
12,620
10,814
3,515
USA
Hello Darby, I agree with Tom. Something seems amiss. Would it be possible to take your turntable/arm/cartridge, and perhaps even the Luxman, over to your friend's system? I presume he lives nearby and has a vinyl set up of his own. Listen to how your analog sounds in his system and compare it to what he has. Barring such a comparison, you might have to try to diagnose what the issue is in your system. Has your friend, who knows how to set up turntables, heard your system? Perhaps it is as simple as the wrong cartridge loading, reversed channels on the phono cable, or improper VTA/VTF etc. You write that the cartridge is new. It should improve over time, but now sound thin, hollow or 1D as you describe. Is the sound consistent with all of the LPs you have tried? If it sounds better on some than on others, it may be VTA. Good luck.

BTW, what turntable/arm/cartridge did you used to own in the 80s?
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,316
1,426
1,820
Manila, Philippines
My suspicion is the cart. LOMC carts typically need phono stages meant for them. These are not usually built into usual phono stages much less integrated amps. Lots of high ticket phono pres struggle with low MC carts. You might want to check out the gain structure. To make things simple however You could try a MM cart. IMO MM carts get a bad rap just because they aren't expensive. If I were to build up a compact system for myself, I would reach for an MM first. I'm very sure you'll find the body and texture you've been missing with the Denon.
 

Darby

Active Member
Jun 23, 2015
10
0
31
Hi to all. Firstly I want to thank you guys for the responses so far and also for the welcome....back

As an update. I have been doing some more listening and although things are not prefect, there is a definite improvement.

I think the cart is settling in now and with about 50 hours of use later, it seems a lot more open and detailed. It is still somewhat shrill and I do plan on experimenting with some other ( affordable ) carts to see if they may be better suited to my TT.
Some people have told me that the limitations of the tonearm on the JVC may be the limiting factor and that the Denon is probably at the upper end of the arm's capabilities. I do tend to agree with this and I think that I also may have expectations somewhat beyond what the TT can ultimately do.
I also tried out my TT on some other people's systems and the results were fairly consistent,although the cart loading of 100ohms eventually seemed to give the best results. I discovered this as my Luxman has the 100ohm setting for LOMC carts as default and it sounded better on my amplifier than several others.
In another system where there was a separate phono stage with variable cart loading, the 100ohms setting was by far the most pleasing, so I am fortunate that my Luxman has this setting as it is the best setting for the Denon cart and it really is a very fine phono stage in my amplifier so that isn't the limitation.

My plan, from here on, is to wait a few months and see how the sound evolves and then if I am not satisfied I may look at a better TT but I am only prepared to go to a certain level of expenditure ( perhaps $1500 AUD )

In the meantime, any other ideas and suggestions for what may be the next step, would be most welcome

Hope everyone here had a very nice Easter break:)
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing