Kronos keeps getting better

audioblazer

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Without vested interested this comment is more reliable

My friends asked me if I would let go any of my tts once AS arrives. I said I keep all of them. But to be honest I thought about if I had to let go one of them which would it be. And it was not going to be the Kronos. I really don’t know how the Kronos manages to sound as it does. It is still my reference. It is not logical to me and probably to many tt gurus. If you really think about its main selling point, the counter rotational platters, this is actually the area that is most questionable. Speed control is the most difficult part of tt to get it done right. Just to get one motor run at stable continuous smooth one motion with no interference is already the super difficult to do, so to get two platters rotating at exact speed and motion to counteract? Really? The design just has so many flaw traps to fall into.

I just don’t know how Louis manage to implement it. The Kronos to my ears sound super good. People who likes the character of Techdas might think otherwise. But to me, with the SAT and Opus1, it sounds more expressive (raw?), emotionally involving, smart casual, less perfectly organized and formal than the Techdas. It’s funny my tonearm guy who also works for the other two owners who have both Kronos and AF1 in the same system in BKK said they made the same comments I do, not knowing or ever talk to each other. Kronos rocks!! :cool:

View attachment 38057

Just my opinion,
Tang
 

bonzo75

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AB, didn't you own both as well?
 

Pb Blimp

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My friends asked me if I would let go any of my tts once AS arrives. I said I keep all of them. But to be honest I thought about if I had to let go one of them which would it be. And it was not going to be the Kronos. I really don’t know how the Kronos manages to sound as it does. It is still my reference. It is not logical to me and probably to many tt gurus. If you really think about its main selling point, the counter rotational platters, this is actually the area that is most questionable. Speed control is the most difficult part of tt to get it done right. Just to get one motor run at stable continuous smooth one motion with no interference is already the super difficult to do, so to get two platters rotating at exact speed and motion to counteract? Really? The design just has so many flaw traps to fall into.
I just don’t know how Louis manage to implement it. The Kronos to my ears sound super good. People who likes the character of Techdas might think otherwise. But to me, with the SAT and Opus1, it sounds more expressive (raw?), emotionally involving, smart casual, less perfectly organized and formal than the Techdas. It’s funny my tonearm guy who also works for the other two owners who have both Kronos and AF1 in the same system in BKK said they made the same comments I do, not knowing or ever talk to each other. Kronos rocks!! :cool:

View attachment 38057

Just my opinion,
Tang

This was my concern with Kronos. On paper the design is very compelling. Suspension with perfect platter position--what's not to like? Kronos does an excellent job at maintaining the initial build tolerances to achieve "net improvement" in results from this delicate approach. Counter rotation fixes an inherent problem but my concern was whether the stability would be maintained over the long run as components wear over time. It seems to me, even extremely remote changes in bearing surface tolerances could cause more problems down the road than a traditional design (I am talking years). I am probably wrong but this but it spooked me and I stayed with Gunther.
 

audioblazer

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Only AFO . Heard Kronos in my room . V good . The best ? - subjective . & most who have heard it in my part of the world certainly won't agree . Any honest comparison ?No except maybe by Tango but with different arms & catridges
 

Tango

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Only AFO . Heard Kronos in my room . V good . The best ? - subjective . & most who have heard it in my part of the world certainly won't agree . Any honest comparison ?No except maybe by Tango but with different arms & catridges

I totally agree it is subjective. I never said any tt is the best. To me the characters of AF1 is exactly like the way it is built. You will be amazed at how excellent it is manufactured and attention to detail was put in when you assemble it. The inside parts, the surface underneath the platter, not just the outside that is immaculate but inside too. Everything is so neatly laid out like a gentleman in three pieces suit. That what the AF1 sounds like to me. Very neatly laid out almost zen like. No need to talk about quietness, transparency, stages, etc. If you have these tables you already get pass those attributes. They are all there. It’s the character that I find what set them apart. So take you pick. I still think there should be a better tt than these two. I know exactly the character or uncharacter I am looking for. I hope my search end at AS....oops forgot, Or the 927:D.

Tang
 

gian60

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Apr 17, 2016
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Dear Tang
Your search will never end
You will try and buy mc sut for your cartridge
5 amp to penta amplifier your speaker 5 way with 2 active crossover Pass XRV1 and can try Kalista transport with Pacific Lampizator dac
Then you will start for a second syatem
Ciao
Gian
 

Tango

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Dear Tang
Your search will never end
You will try and buy mc sut for your cartridge
5 amp to penta amplifier your speaker 5 way with 2 active crossover Pass XRV1 and can try Kalista transport with Pacific Lampizator dac
Then you will start for a second syatem
Ciao
Gian

Search will end but buying (tts) may continue. Can’t take all my money with me when I am gone my dear friend :D.

Sawasdee,
Tang
 

gian60

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Apr 17, 2016
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Ok
Now is better
In 1990 I had 4 pair of Mark Levinson N20 bridge and biamp and I was happy
Than I knew Be Yamamura that built for me a mono preamp/amp with external power supply 8 stack with tube 211 and superpermalloy trans,all made in copper for total weight 260 kg
I told,I spent a lot but this is the end.
But unfortunately was only the beginning
 

leyenda

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Mar 2, 2011
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Ok
Now is better
In 1990 I had 4 pair of Mark Levinson N20 bridge and biamp and I was happy
Than I knew Be Yamamura that built for me a mono preamp/amp with external power supply 8 stack with tube 211 and superpermalloy trans,all made in copper for total weight 260 kg
I told,I spent a lot but this is the end.
But unfortunately was only the beginning

I do not have contribution to this thread, just a pass-by and I just want to Tell Gian that I have always enjoyed your one-liners :D:D
 

tima

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Mar 3, 2014
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Swami Tim,
Lovin the limbic, it’s the state I’m a virtual full time resident of, also ever so slightly off the beaten track but just read one of your pieces today and much appreciated your review on the Alexia 2s... tbh I don’t always get all these new fangled post modernist writers with their crazy styles so absolutely love your structure and thoughtful, rich expressiveness, you do both form and function proud.

Thank for you kind compliment, Tao - much appreciated!
 

Chris F

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Oct 17, 2014
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Here is a little Kronos product development spy shot I took while visiting Louis last weekend ;)

IMG_0312.jpg

Turns out the metal top is not the ideal interface. We listened to several sizes of wood blocks and the difference with each is clearly audible. Evaluation was in Louis' home system which is Kronos/SCPS/Zyx Universe 3, Kronos ref phono, custom pre, Absolare monoblocks and dynaudio evidence. This particular weight/interface to the puck had the best sound. Once the size/weight is finalized I think Louis will try different woods and you can probably expect to see an actual product sometime next year. In the meantime if you have a Kronos try unscrewing the top of the weight and just using the puck and see how the sound changes. You can keep the little metal part the upper screws into and use that to lift the puck up/down off the table.

BTW Universe 3 is an excellent cartridge as far as I can tell. I have an Omega Premium which is slightly different flavour.
 

Leif S

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www.vonschweikert.com
Here is a little Kronos product development spy shot I took while visiting Louis last weekend ;)

View attachment 38150

Turns out the metal top is not the ideal interface. We listened to several sizes of wood blocks and the difference with each is clearly audible. Evaluation was in Louis' home system which is Kronos/SCPS/Zyx Universe 3, Kronos ref phono, custom pre, Absolare monoblocks and dynaudio evidence. This particular weight/interface to the puck had the best sound. Once the size/weight is finalized I think Louis will try different woods and you can probably expect to see an actual product sometime next year. In the meantime if you have a Kronos try unscrewing the top of the weight and just using the puck and see how the sound changes. You can keep the little metal part the upper screws into and use that to lift the puck up/down off the table.

BTW Universe 3 is an excellent cartridge as far as I can tell. I have an Omega Premium which is slightly different flavour.

I'm really looking forward to the Universe 3 cartridge. Hopefully will be receiving the new parts for the table soon:)
 

Tango

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I tried different record weights also. Heavier ones tended to make the sound dull, less open.

Tang
 

awsmone

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Apr 6, 2014
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Having spent some time with Lois, one of his main attributes is he is a great listener and can set up a system

I am therefore not surprised about his search into sonic effects of different materials

There has been increased interest in Chladni plate tuning for turntables 370E930F-1596-4A5A-A709-8A66496C3850.jpg and given the large surface area of the plinth even though they are constrained damped, it would be interesting to see if there are modes?
 

Chris F

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Oct 17, 2014
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I tried different record weights also. Heavier ones tended to make the sound dull, less open.

Tang

Yes for sure too heavy ones will overdamp it and kill the sound.

For the ones we tried:
Default Kronos metal top (aluminum?): good transient snap but a bit forward in comparison to the rest
No top just the puck: more natural but a bit diffuse and lacking in bite/transient snap
Small wood block: better focus, sound getting even more natural
bigger wood block as shown: even more natural sound than the small block; excellent focus, good transient snap. basically most of the good attributes of the other options rolled into one

Since you can't kill the vibration entirely or it sounds dead it seems the trick is to find the most sympathetic combination with the rest of the Kronos system.
 

Tango

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Dear Chris F,

Have you ever asked Louis, what is after 250? Has he reached 250?

Just curious,
Tang
 

Chris F

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Oct 17, 2014
49
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Ottawa, ON, Canada
Hi Tang,

Not sure what will come after 250 but last time I was there I did see some initial sketches for a follow up table. This is far off in the future though; pure speculation on my part but at least several years. I think that this year Louis is going to focus on bringing the phono stage to market and the continual evolution/improvement of the Kronos Pro with some updated parts such as the above.

You would have to ask Louis but I think the total including non numbered (pre 250 from 2012/2013) Kronos Pro tables is somewhere around 200. Mine is 162 from October of last year.

The other interesting bit of info he mentioned to me is that a majority of Kronos Pro owners (something like 2/3rds or more) now have the SCPS.
 

Tango

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I had a Dalby Constellation Titanium record weight for about a week already. It is the most classy beautiful record weight I ever lay my hand on. A Patek Philippe of audio. More beautiful than the Techdas Tungsten that Boonyarat is showing in another thread...sorry Boon. At first I thought it sounded like sh_t. A few days after I found out that my grounding cable was accidentally disconnected to the Elite. Listening to it on Kronos now. I can say that my Kronos definitely sounds better than Boonyarat’s :p. Kronos is a bit light on weight. This Dalby gives Kronos more punch, dynamic, a bit more dense, while still open sound and no roll off in high extension.


Kind regards,
Tang
 

bonzo75

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I had a Dalby Constellation Titanium record weight for about a week already. It is the most classy beautiful record weight I ever lay my hand on. A Patek Philippe of audio. More beautiful than the Techdas Tungsten that Boonyarat is showing in another thread...sorry Boon. At first I thought it sounded like sh_t. A few days after I found out that my grounding cable was accidentally disconnected to the Elite. Listening to it on Kronos now. I can say that my Kronos definitely sounds better than Boonyarat’s :p. Kronos is a bit light on weight. This Dalby gives Kronos more punch, dynamic, a bit more dense, while still open sound and no roll off in high extension.

Kind regards,
Tang

And, if anyone wants to buy a Dalby record weight with a massive discount, I am selling one. Details, pics, review comments here http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...e-D7-8-chamber&p=491962&viewfull=1#post491962
 

boonyarat

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I had a Dalby Constellation Titanium record weight for about a week already. It is the most classy beautiful record weight I ever lay my hand on. A Patek Philippe of audio. More beautiful than the Techdas Tungsten that Boonyarat is showing in another thread...sorry Boon. At first I thought it sounded like sh_t. A few days after I found out that my grounding cable was accidentally disconnected to the Elite. Listening to it on Kronos now. I can say that my Kronos definitely sounds better than Boonyarat’s :p. Kronos is a bit light on weight. This Dalby gives Kronos more punch, dynamic, a bit more dense, while still open sound and no roll off in high extension.


Kind regards,
Tang

Congratulation for your new toy Khun Tang but if you have chance to touch, close look and try the Ultimate TUNGSTEN then you might feel and say different . Believed me Nishikawa-san never made thing for fun but he always serious to made it for the best result . As we know just material like TUNGSTEN was so difficult to machined as it much harden than titanium and more density , that why this Ultimate Disc Stabilizer weight 1.2 Kg , plus some specially designed and treatment by TechDAS made this items worth to try :):):):):)......... For KRONOS , Louis will show you some other items when he visit you next time after Munich show and I'm sure he will discuss with you more :D:D:D
 

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