Quest for speaker upgrade

christoph

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Dec 11, 2015
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Hi André

It's a pity that Apogees just don't fit the plans. They are really very special :cool:

I will be available in July from the 1st to the 21st (I'm on Holidays from the 22nd on) and would be more than happy to meet you and show you my stuff.

I still have the Apogee Studio Grand and Apogee Centaur Major and my friend with my ex-Scintillas lives 5 Minutes away from my place so you could get a "little" insight to the Apogee world. We can also listen to my Acoustats as an electrostat to compare with the magnetostatic Apogees.

I also still have my Cantata and you will be able to compare it with my Golden Gate and with the Golden Atlantic of another friend who also lives 5 minutes away from me.

The earlier I know when you plan to come, the bigger are the chances that my friends can make time for a visit to their places as well.

Btw. I'm in the middle of setting up a third system in a more "normally" sized room. That should be very interesting :eek:

Cheers,
Christoph
 

christoph

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Just a quick update: listened to Martin Logan Expression and Vandersteen Quatro Wood CT speakers this afternoon. They were not on my list, but the opportunity presented itself. Will report later on them.
I can't wait to read about your impressions.
At least the Martin Logan Expression didn't move me at all, whereas I repeatedly liked a (modestly priced) vandersteen treo...
 

wisnon

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Dec 12, 2011
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Just a quick update: listened to Martin Logan Expression and Vandersteen Quatro Wood CT speakers this afternoon. They were not on my list, but the opportunity presented itself. Will report later on them.

Rev,

Did you ever try these speakers (formally sold by United Home in Baltimore, now only available thru TriCell in Canada): http://precide.ch/eng/eheil/eheil.htm

The Kithara will not win any visual beauty contest, but the Big Heil driver is a dream (nothing does piano like this driver with the 5x times exit speed of the AMT tech), going from (X-over point) 550hz to 23khz. With the bassplate as a modely priced option, the bass is tight and keeps up with the tweet. Dipole dispersion. Total price for a pair is not super expensive...should be about $8K plus shipping from Canada. The Oskar Heil AMT brand is Swiss. Used, I have seem them go as low as $3K a pair on the Gon. Bassplate pair is only $600 or so. Example: http://www.audio-markt.de/_markt/item.php?id=8191467483

2-way, 28hz to 23khz +/- 3db, 94db sensitive.

Oldie, but goodie...but VERY low WAF. LoL
 
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bonzo75

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Sorry, I take back my Duetta Caveat. I heard the Duettas against a glass wall yesterday, close up. They were just over 4 feet apart, and I was maybe 10 ft, if at all. They sounded extremely musical and intimate. I purposefully did this setting as I wanted to see how they would sound under less than ideal conditions.
 

christoph

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Hi Ked

How much space was between the Speakers and the back (glass) wall?
 

bonzo75

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reverendo

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Mar 10, 2014
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Hi André

It's a pity that Apogees just don't fit the plans. They are really very special :cool:

I will be available in July from the 1st to the 21st (I'm on Holidays from the 22nd on) and would be more than happy to meet you and show you my stuff.

I still have the Apogee Studio Grand and Apogee Centaur Major and my friend with my ex-Scintillas lives 5 Minutes away from my place so you could get a "little" insight to the Apogee world. We can also listen to my Acoustats as an electrostat to compare with the magnetostatic Apogees.

I also still have my Cantata and you will be able to compare it with my Golden Gate and with the Golden Atlantic of another friend who also lives 5 minutes away from me.

The earlier I know when you plan to come, the bigger are the chances that my friends can make time for a visit to their places as well.

Btw. I'm in the middle of setting up a third system in a more "normally" sized room. That should be very interesting :eek:

Cheers,
Christoph

Hi Christoph,
Just sent you an e-mail. Let's start making plans.
Best
 

reverendo

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Mar 10, 2014
119
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Dallas, TX
Rev,

Did you ever try these speakers (formally sold by United Home in Baltimore, now only available thru TriCell in Canada): http://precide.ch/eng/eheil/eheil.htm

The Kithara will not win any visual beauty contest, but the Big Heil driver is a dream (nothing does piano like this driver with the 5x times exit speed of the AMT tech), going from (X-over point) 550hz to 23khz. With the bassplate as a modely priced option, the bass is tight and keeps up with the tweet. Dipole dispersion. Total price for a pair is not super expensive...should be about $8K plus shipping from Canada. The Oskar Heil AMT brand is Swiss. Used, I have seem them go as low as $3K a pair on the Gon. Bassplate pair is only $600 or so.

2-way, 28hz to 23khz +/- 3db, 94db sensitive.

Oldie, but goodie...but VERY low WAF. LoL

Hi wisnon, nice to see you around here. Haven't been much in CA lately.
I've heard of the Heil AMT, but never listened to them. They seem to be something special, but the visuals would probably land me in the dog house (which I preemptively don't have). Still would be curious to listen to these just out of curiosity. Thanks for reminding me of these even if it is to just get to know something different.
Best
 

reverendo

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Mar 10, 2014
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Sorry, I take back my Duetta Caveat. I heard the Duettas against a glass wall yesterday, close up. They were just over 4 feet apart, and I was maybe 10 ft, if at all. They sounded extremely musical and intimate. I purposefully did this setting as I wanted to see how they would sound under less than ideal conditions.


I'll first have to hear these to even think about introducing the concept to my wife. She has been extremely patient, but there are certain battle you don't want to get into without knowing they're worth it. :D still, 1 meter is still quite a lot depending on how large the space is.
BTW, are these Gryphon amps that I see lying around?
 

bonzo75

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I'll first have to hear these to even think about introducing the concept to my wife. She has been extremely patient, but there are certain battle you don't want to get into without knowing they're worth it. :D still, 1 meter is still quite a lot depending on how large the space is.
BTW, are these Gryphon amps that I see lying around?

No, Krell, but Gryphon works as well. But with WAF, I wouldn't really advise in case room got smaller...in your current room the scintilla and duetta will be unbeatable and will look great as well as they can be painted anyway. But yes, they look invasive in smaller spaces and the reason I initially suggested Heco, over better speakers, is that it is the best, low priced speaker that I know off that fits small rooms and is least invasive (compared to panels and cones)
 

reverendo

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Mar 10, 2014
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quick report on the ML Expression and Vandersteen Quatro Wood CT
System: Auralic>Parasound JC2 BP>Aesthetix Atlas. The system was the same for both, just adding the Parasound Phono and VPI Avenger for some Analogue goodness at the end of the session. SC was Audioquest and assume that interconnects were, too.

ML Expression 13A
Initially sounded a lot like my own speakers with more low end, but once John put some cloth behind them they changed completely for the better. There are no holes in the mid and highs reproduction and it seems that Martin Logan has significantly bettered integration with the sub, although the crossover can still be heard if you know what you're looking for. With the drapes/towels/whatever behind them the sound stage also projected significantly in front of them and the stage became more elliptical with the speakers being in that inner axis. Pretty neat trick. High frequency extension is good, but does not have that much of the trickle-down effect that I'm looking for. My current speakers do a better job at that. From a tonality perspective they are very similar to what I have, but are better in texture and, to a certain extent, body. Speed is on par with the MMO, but again, I have a faster amp and cables so that might something to do with it, too.
Reflective surfaces behind them severely hamper what they can do. Can have the woofer output adapted, so I guess that also helps to fine tune with the room. Off-axis dispersion is extremely limited. The sounds falls apart if you move laterally. Looks are always very personal, but they don't tower as monolithic as the Revels, but, in my case, would still be a tough sell. Overall a very good speaker, but not really what I'm aiming for.

Vandersteen Quatro Wood CT
This was my first encounter with Vandersteens and I had no idea what to expect. MY GOODNESS, are these good!!! Immediately reminded me of the Rockport sound (I'm sure many will disagree), but with a tad less resolution (I only know the Aviors personally and that system was using the full Scarlatti stack and Nagra amplification, so that might also be it). The sound is extremely cohesive, phenomenally well integrated and has a mid and low end to die for. Deep, accurate low frequencies without bloat and, for the second time in my life, I heard low frequency decay reproduction (first time was Rockport, so maybe that's one of the reasons I feel they're similar). Sound stage was incredible, body, texture and tonality were off the charts. They do so many things right that it frees the mind up to focus on other things than making up for the deficiencies in sound. This, and not some kind of added warmth, is why I believe these are so non-fatiguing. Could listen to them for extended periods of time easily.
The major beef that I would have with them is similar to the one that I had with Rockports - HF extension and decay, where I have stated that my preference is for something more Raidho-ish. I don't know if this one of the trade-offs of getting so much right regarding body, texture and tonality, but a pattern seems to emerge. If only Richard would be able to be true to this sound with a Ribbon, Beryllium or whatever-tweeter it would be a killer. If at the end of my quest I do find out that one can only have one or the other I just might choose this version, since it does so much right.
Again the Revels seem to walk that middle ground. Tonality, body, texture and weight were better with the Vandersteens, but the Salon2s were very good, too, with the added benefit of a better HF extension and decay and a phenomenal off-axis dispersion. The Quatros sound stage didn't completely fall apart when sitting on the seat next to the sweet spot like the ML, but it was still miles from how well the Salon2s dealt with that.
Size is very surprising and would probably would be the easiest sell of all of the speakers I've looked at until now. Again dimensions on paper don't tell the whole story. They become more slender towards the top and are not very tall, so the impression is of a smaller speaker. These are definitely on the short list.

John also mentioned that I might want to listen to the new ELACs that he will be getting in about a month. There seems to be some kind of stir in the community regarding the Adante line and I intend to check them out. My thanks to John Fort for his time, patience and wisdom. A true gentleman that's been doing this for a very long time. #respect

20170417_173749.jpg
 

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wisnon

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Dec 12, 2011
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Hi wisnon, nice to see you around here. Haven't been much in CA lately.
I've heard of the Heil AMT, but never listened to them. They seem to be something special, but the visuals would probably land me in the dog house (which I preemptively don't have). Still would be curious to listen to these just out of curiosity. Thanks for reminding me of these even if it is to just get to know something different.
Best
Most welcome my friend.

See the write up by the seller in this advert. Killer price too.
http://www.audio-markt.de/_markt/item.php?id=8191467483
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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I'll first have to hear these to even think about introducing the concept to my wife. She has been extremely patient, but there are certain battle you don't want to get into without knowing they're worth it. :D still, 1 meter is still quite a lot depending on how large the space is.
BTW, are these Gryphon amps that I see lying around?

Have you ever considered Apogee Stages? Smaller, more manageable...They have a lot of magic, throw a big sound with surprising upper bass grunt, and i am told contain much of the midrange and upper range alacrity and magic of their even more famous brothers (Full Range, Scintilla, Diva, etc).
 

Brucemck2

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Are those Viva monoblocks on the floor? I had a pair for a short while and they were stunning!
 

reverendo

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Mar 10, 2014
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Are those Viva monoblocks on the floor? I had a pair for a short while and they were stunning!

indeed they are, but the weren't hooked up. Didn't even know of their existence before.
 

reverendo

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Mar 10, 2014
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Dallas, TX
Have you ever considered Apogee Stages? Smaller, more manageable...They have a lot of magic, throw a big sound with surprising upper bass grunt, and i am told contain much of the midrange and upper range alacrity and magic of their even more famous brothers (Full Range, Scintilla, Diva, etc).

I don't even know the Apogee sound. Would have to get hooked before even thinking of considering, since looks and positioning certainly don't help much given my specific situation. Maybe there's someone close by who has some to that I can listen to what they bring to the table.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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I don't even know the Apogee sound. Would have to get hooked before even thinking of considering, since looks and positioning certainly don't help much given my specific situation. Maybe there's someone close by who has some to that I can listen to what they bring to the table.

Try Gallant_diva who is at least in the Dallas Fort Worth Area of TX and owns Apogee Full Ranges in one of the most stupendous looking systems I have seen.

https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/5104
 

reverendo

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Mar 10, 2014
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reverendo

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Mar 10, 2014
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Dallas, TX
We're going to have the Lone Star Audio Fest in Dallas two weeks from now. Have no real idea if there might be any speaker that might be a good fit there, but will definitely be there on Sunday. Maybe I get lucky.
 

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