Quest for speaker upgrade

reverendo

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2014
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Dallas, TX
One explanation for the midrange and bass Andre found, was because of space limitations I had to place the E3 MkII's to the side of the G1's. This caused the speaker's woofer to fire directly into the G1's woofer and the midrange into the section above. If I can get Andre back over somtime I will move the G1's, and for that matter the Anat III's in the corner, out of the room. I also just got the DAC up and running in the Dart 208 so it was breaking in as well. I know it sounds like I am making excuses, but I absolutely love the E3 MKII's and feel they far outperfom their $8k price tag.

I'd gladly come over again, Scott, if you feel that that might have influenced my audition. It's always a treat to visit you. :)
 

reverendo

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Mar 10, 2014
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Dallas, TX
quick update: setting up an audition of the Revel Salon 2.
also adding the Thiel 3.7 to my list. I remember listening to them a long time ago and always thinking they had great potential, that with the right electronics they would really shine. has anyone here ever listened to them matched and set up correctly?
 

MtnHam

Industry Expert
Jan 12, 2014
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Given your stated preferences, you really must hear a well set up system with Sound Lab electrostatics. I am of course biased, but it is an honest opinion. The U-1PX is the ultimate, but any of the more recent models will also fulfill what you are seeking if they are in a well evolved system. They are particularly suited for someone who loves classical and vocal music, as they come as close to providing the concert hall experience as I have found. The opportunites to audition them are extremely limited, but I would welcome a visit from any WBF member who is interested, just send a PM. Keep in mind, I am in the boonies and it's no small feat to get here, even though I am within a few miles of the Sonoma County wine country.
RusGulch.jpg
 

bonzo75

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Tom - not sure if you read but he is limited both by budget and space restrictions, since he will be relocating often
 

reverendo

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2014
119
9
325
Dallas, TX
Given your stated preferences, you really must hear a well set up system with Sound Lab electrostatics. I am of course biased, but it is an honest opinion. The U-1PX is the ultimate, but any of the more recent models will also fulfill what you are seeking if they are in a well evolved system. They are particularly suited for someone who loves classical and vocal music, as they come as close to providing the concert hall experience as I have found. The opportunites to audition them are extremely limited, but I would welcome a visit from any WBF member who is interested, just send a PM. Keep in mind, I am in the boonies and it's no small feat to get here, even though I am within a few miles of the Sonoma County wine country.
View attachment 31692

Thanks for chiming in, Tom, but that option unfortunately won't suit my needs, as bonzo75 pointed out.
 

reverendo

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Mar 10, 2014
119
9
325
Dallas, TX
Does anyone have some useful impressions about the Magico S3? Used they are starting to come close to my budget range.
 

Barry2013

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Oct 12, 2013
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Does anyone have some useful impressions about the Magico S3? Used they are starting to come close to my budget range.

I've only heard them at shows but the sound was good and big with more bass than a Carmel.
I found the Carmel to be more musical and transparent but we are into personal preferences and the S3 is certainly worthy of adding to your list.
 

reverendo

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Mar 10, 2014
119
9
325
Dallas, TX
I've only heard them at shows but the sound was good and big with more bass than a Carmel.
I found the Carmel to be more musical and transparent but we are into personal preferences and the S3 is certainly worthy of adding to your list.

Hi Barry2013,
Are you talking about the Carmel 1 or 2?
 

reverendo

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Mar 10, 2014
119
9
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Dallas, TX
Yesterday I was able to audition the Revel Salon 2s. Here (in hindsight) a not-so-quick report:
Tim Jerome was so kind to let me listen to them at his showroom. Here is the system:
Aurender N10>Mark Levinson Preamp/DAC 523>Jeff Rowland 625 S2>Revel Salon 2. All cables were Nordost Valhalla 2, Odin and Odin 2. Power conditioning was PS Audio P10, Nordost QB 8 MkII, Quantum QRT QX-4, Qk1, Qv2.
Listening to the Revels was an easy and difficult task. Easy because they sound incredibly good. Difficult because I normally quickly identify some sonic traits that stand out. Normally that helps with analogies and descriptions which I use to analyze and classify certain aspects of the sound. This was definitely not easy here, since, in my perception, these speakers don't have or do not easily reveal a specific sonic trait. Their sound is so correct and homogeneous that either they don't have a house sound (which I think is highly unlikely) or their sonic trait is so continuous throughout the whole frequency band that one can't get a grip on it in one simple session. This brings me to one of the main aspects of these speakers - they have a phenomenal sonic integrity from bottom to top. I can't recall any other speaker that I have listened to that has such a continuity in sound, which seems quite a feat taking into account how many drivers these babies have. I can imagine that many people might find these speakers boring, since they don't excel in anything specific, don't have a distinctive siren song to sing. They do everything so very, very well that they just might fool the first-time listener.
Here a few of my observations:
They are very, very correct. I use this adjective consciously, because saying that they are accurate might convey the wrong message. They are just right. I tested some tracks that I helped produce and with which I am intimately familiar. Everything was there, was the way I was used to hearing it, but better.
Sound stage was huge,
Disappearing act - check (no small feat with speakers this size)
Natural and correct deep bass - check
Extended highs - check
Resolved midrange - check...
I could really go on and on. And here's one of the major differences - do I prefer the HF decay of the Raidhos? Yes. Do I prefer the mids and the LF of the Rockports? Yes. But these speakers still have the most coherent sound I can remember listening to overall. So for me, someone who looks for musicality and truth at the same time these speakers are ideal, although I can imagine others who look for a specific trait finding them, well, for a lack of a better word - boring. This definitely isn't my case. I really think that I've gotten a good idea of what they do and I love it!
Two last comments: 1) These speakers have a very generous sweet spot. Although there are the obvious dividends of sitting in the middle the sound didn't fall apart if you moved around. Off axis dispersion seems to be really off the charts. They are probably the best dynamic speakers I've experienced in this regard. Even listening from the left of the left speaker still gave me very good results, making this a speaker that you can share with others. I really like this. 2) The Salon 2s are visually imposing. I knew about the dimensions, but I didn't anticipate their physical presence. They will definitely dominate any mid-size room, especially if it is a living room. This is something that is rather complicated in my given situation.
Tim was very clear that trade-ins are rare for these speakers and that few sell them used, too. After listening to them it makes complete sense. Which makes them far harder to acquire, since their original price is practically double my upper budget limit. Their size is also a factor that I need to take into account because of my ever-changing circumstances. If I had a fixed, dedicated room these would most likely be a no-brainer. For now I'll continue on my quest, but with my eyes open for a used pair, which would still have to pass the WAF test.
Thanks to Tim for a great audition. That track with Nina Simone was the cherry on top of Sahne. I simply need it now! I've also never seen so much good gear non-chalantly scattered all around the space, not the least a Bosendorfer that actually seems to see daily use. I shall be back with a couple of mixes and masters for final evaluations under my arm. Thanks also to Bruce, who was right on the money and has the privilege to work with these on his productions.
 
Last edited:

reverendo

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2014
119
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325
Dallas, TX
received two different suggestions from two different people about speakers that might match many of my criteria:
  • Lawrence Audio Cello
  • Gold Note XT-7
let's see if I can find a way to get a glimpse of what they are about. still trying to listen to the other speakers that I mentioned previously.
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Here a few of my observations:
They are very, very correct. I use this adjective consciously, because saying that they are accurate might convey the wrong message. They are just right. I tested some tracks that I helped produce and with which I am intimately familiar. Everything was there, was the way I was used to hearing it, but better.

Which is why I use these speakers in mastering. They don't do anything bad.


Sound stage was huge,

Two last comments: 1) These speakers have a very generous sweet spot. Although there are the obvious dividends of sitting in the middle the sound didn't fall apart if you moved around. Off axis dispersion seems to be really off the charts. They are probably the best dynamic speakers I've experienced in this regard. .

If you read Stereophile's measurements, they are one of the best speakers for off-axis performance. This is really telling in a speaker's performance.


Thanks also to Bruce, who was right on the money and has the privilege to work with these on his productions.

You are most welcome. You are correct, it IS a privilege to listen to these speakers daily. With the added subs to correct the room deficiencies, I'm sure I'll have many more happy years of production.
 

Brucemck2

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christoph

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Dec 11, 2015
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Hello André

After you already have and love the Gryphon, how about something out of the box (pun intended)?

A refurbed Apogee Duetta should be feasible price wise, or a refurbed Apogee Caliper. But if at all possible, I would stretch for the Duetta.
All you need to provide is about 1m (the more the better) distance to a flat back wall.

Cheers,
Christoph

PS: I see you still have the Cantata. I thought you have been looking for another DAC some time ago... I now have a Lampizator DAC and it's years better sounding than my trusty Cantata.
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Hello André

After you already have and love the Gryphon, how about something out of the box (pun intended)?

A refurbed Apogee Duetta should be feasible price wise, or a refurbed Apogee Caliper. But if at all possible, I would stretch for the Duetta.
All you need to provide is about 1m (the more the better) distance to a flat back wall.

Cheers,
Christoph

PS: I see you still have the Cantata. I thought you have been looking for another DAC some time ago... I now have a Lampizator DAC and it's years better sounding than my trusty Cantata.

I would love to recommend him that but he said he wants the speaker to be flexible to moves, so he might move into a smaller apartment. That's why I think many panels, and such cones or vivids won't work
 

reverendo

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2014
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Dallas, TX
Hello André

After you already have and love the Gryphon, how about something out of the box (pun intended)?

A refurbed Apogee Duetta should be feasible price wise, or a refurbed Apogee Caliper. But if at all possible, I would stretch for the Duetta.
All you need to provide is about 1m (the more the better) distance to a flat back wall.

Cheers,
Christoph

PS: I see you still have the Cantata. I thought you have been looking for another DAC some time ago... I now have a Lampizator DAC and it's years better sounding than my trusty Cantata.

Hey Christoph,
Wow, it's been too long.
The Apogees should be mighty interesting and I would definitely love to listen to them one day. Unfortunately, they don't fit the requirements, as bonzo75 mentioned.
BTW, I have been looking long and hard on the source side. A source with valves is definitely on my radar and the Lampi seems to fit what I'm looking for. Which one did you get? Did you know that this coming June there will be an update to the Cantata? I was about to sell mine when Steve from resolutionaudio told me, so I'm waiting to see what they have in store before I make that decision.
Hope to hear more from you.
Best
Andre
 

christoph

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Dec 11, 2015
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Hi André

Yes, it's been too long. I tried several times to contact you via e-mail and over the CA-forum to no avail...
I thought maybe your e-mail address is not valid anymore.
Therefore I'm even happier to "meet" you here :cool:

I wouldn't cross off the Apogee Duetta so fast.

The Duetta is all ribbon, not just only the tweeter and it really is fullrange and plays down to 30hz. The Duetta images wonderfully and is very resolving, yet NOT anaemic like some electrostats can be.
Any half decent speaker will have at least 50 kg each and be delicate and will have to be carried by two people. Master Henk makes wooden boxes to transport the speakers safely.
Any half decent speaker will have to be away from the back wall to sound good.

Yes, the Duettas are a little tall (1.5 m) but they are totally flat and sculptural to look at. I find them very pretty and so does my wife. They are rather wonderful pieces of furniture or even art.
She still isn't able to fully forgive me that I sold her favourite speakers:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...nzilla-SX-Aries-Cerat-Diana-Apogee-Scinitilla

Look at that fit and finish. Just gorgeous:
DSC06098 (Medium).JPG
DSC06135-xga.JPG
That is my ex-Scintilla but Master Henk can transform any wish into reality.

Regarding the Cantata: Steve told me that the upgrade/update was due already in Summer 2016, then that it will be announced at the CES in Las Vegas in January 2017, then he told me it's gonna be at the High End in Munich this May and now you tell me it's going to be June? What Year? :rolleyes:
Do you know what the upgrade/update for the Cantata will include?

We compared the Cantata with the "modest" Lampizator Atlantic Plus (with tube recti, best bang for the buck, IMHO) and the Atlantic sounded so much better, that I really felt sorry for the poor Cantata. I now have the Lampizator Golden Gate und my friend Michael has the Golden Atlantic, that is also extremely good value for the money and comes pretty close to the almighty Golden Gate. I still have the Cantata for a second system and am curious, what Resolution Audio is up to for the Cantata.

Cheers,
Christoph
 

reverendo

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2014
119
9
325
Dallas, TX
Hi André

Yes, it's been too long. I tried several times to contact you via e-mail and over the CA-forum to no avail...
I thought maybe your e-mail address is not valid anymore.
Therefore I'm even happier to "meet" you here :cool:

I wouldn't cross off the Apogee Duetta so fast.

The Duetta is all ribbon, not just only the tweeter and it really is fullrange and plays down to 30hz. The Duetta images wonderfully and is very resolving, yet NOT anaemic like some electrostats can be.
Any half decent speaker will have at least 50 kg each and be delicate and will have to be carried by two people. Master Henk makes wooden boxes to transport the speakers safely.
Any half decent speaker will have to be away from the back wall to sound good.

Yes, the Duettas are a little tall (1.5 m) but they are totally flat and sculptural to look at. I find them very pretty and so does my wife. They are rather wonderful pieces of furniture or even art.
She still isn't able to fully forgive me that I sold her favourite speakers:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...nzilla-SX-Aries-Cerat-Diana-Apogee-Scinitilla

Look at that fit and finish. Just gorgeous:
View attachment 32064
View attachment 32067
That is my ex-Scintilla but Master Henk can transform any wish into reality.

Regarding the Cantata: Steve told me that the upgrade/update was due already in Summer 2016, then that it will be announced at the CES in Las Vegas in January 2017, then he told me it's gonna be at the High End in Munich this May and now you tell me it's going to be June? What Year? :rolleyes:
Do you know what the upgrade/update for the Cantata will include?

We compared the Cantata with the "modest" Lampizator Atlantic Plus (with tube recti, best bang for the buck, IMHO) and the Atlantic sounded so much better, that I really felt sorry for the poor Cantata. I now have the Lampizator Golden Gate und my friend Michael has the Golden Atlantic, that is also extremely good value for the money and comes pretty close to the almighty Golden Gate. I still have the Cantata for a second system and am curious, what Resolution Audio is up to for the Cantata.

Cheers,
Christoph

Hi Christoph,
Those actually look great and the view is wonderful, but I know that a Apogee just won't fit into the plans because of the aforementioned reasons. Still, your "ex-Scintilla" is beautiful. I still need to listen to one of these, since I'm not familiar with the sound at all.
I misstated, since he did mention Munchen Audio Show, which is May and not June. Sounds a little like what I've heard about the MicroTwo, so I probably shouldn't hold my breath either. Since I'm not in a hurry I can wait and see, at least until the summer is over. I believe that source will come right after the speaker, if needed. The Lampizators are definitely receiving a lot of praise and to have someone who actually had the exact same DAC as I do helps to choose possible paths forward.
I'm going to try and look up the e-mails and see if something happened with the spam, which would make no sense.
BTW, I just might be in your neighborhood in July. Maybe I'll get to know your system after all.
Let's keep in touch
Andre
 

reverendo

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2014
119
9
325
Dallas, TX
Just a quick update: listened to Martin Logan Expression and Vandersteen Quatro Wood CT speakers this afternoon. They were not on my list, but the opportunity presented itself. Will report later on them.
 

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