Quest for speaker upgrade

reverendo

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Mar 10, 2014
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Heco Dreiklang from Germany, dirt cheap and fantastic for room shapes and sizes, I only auditioned the smaller brother on orchestral. You will need a lower wattage amp with them though. You won't have to worry about shifting after that

had never seen this before, though I've heard of (but not listened to) Heco. looks a little bit like the Avantgarde Acoustic Zero 1 XD. will try to audition it, since a trip to Germany is already scheduled. thanks.
 

reverendo

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Mar 10, 2014
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Actually, the fact that they're sealed is one of their stronger suits I think. They look kinda cute too, if that sort of thing matters to you. In terms of value, I definitely think they're worth the asking price, but we all have financial limits that need to be respected, if only for the sake of our marriages.

853guy
agree to all parts, especially the latter. I don't care for looks, but if they're going to be in the living room they need to be acceptable for my marriage's sake. :D
 

reverendo

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Mar 10, 2014
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Hi reverendo!

Long time no talk :) Still in Dallas then?
You might want to know that Kevin (Evolution's designer) has finalized the drivers for the MicroTwos, and they should officially debut at this year's LA show in June. So the wait might (finally) be over soon! I know I personally can't wait to listen to them :)
If you still want something else, my recommendation, at that price range, would be either a used YG Carmel 1, or one of the new Dynaudio Contours.
The Carmel 1 has *incredible* bass. They need power, though. We've shown the Carmel 1s with Audia Flight and MSB back in Brazil, in one of the High-End Shows a few years back (at the Maksound Plaza). It was one of the bigger rooms, and the speakers handled it beautifully. But, as I said, they need the power, otherwise they too become shouty.
The new Dynaudios are much improved from the older stuff, which wasn't bad, but was getting a little long in the tooth, specially compared to the new cutting edge designs like YG, Rockport, etc. It was a pleasant surprise hearing what they did with the new Contours, so much that we actually picked up the line on their strength!
Another one you might want to keep an eye out for is the new top of the line ELAC series by Andrew Jones, Adante, that they announced at CES. It should be available soon, and the floorstander tops at $5k.

cheers,
alex

I'll believe it when they're ready, Alex! :D I've heard a similar tale for the last 3 years so I'm not holding my breath. Would be nice though.
As you know, power and current are not a problem so the Carmel 1 might be interesting to look at after all. will take that into consideration. And yes, Audia Flight is a delight.
Dynaudios normally aren't by cup of tea, but, then again, I never listened to their top speakers in the Evidence line.
Regarding Elac: I always thought their top-of-the-line speakers were the 500-line. Are these supposed to supplant them? Normally liked their tweeter designs.
Nice hearing from you again.
All the best
 

asiufy

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I think the Gryphon will pair beautifully with the YGs. That warm, mellifluous sound will be perfect on the inherently hi-res YGs.
We currently don't have any Carmel 1s, but I believe Bill Parish (GTT Audio) has, both in black and silver.
My problem with the older Dynaudios was the bass. That port could wreak havoc in rooms, and the excess bass would blur everything up above, leaving you with an impression of lack of definition, and not even that beautiful tweeter could save'em. With the new Contours, the port is still there, but the driver design is much improved, and they apparently put out much tighter bass, in spite of the port. Since they're reasonably popular, you might be able to score an audition locally there!
The ELACs have two separate lines running in parallel, the german and the more budget-minded, Andrew Jones designed lines. The Adante is supposed to be Andrew's best design, and from what I heard at CES, it's fairly impressive!

http://elac.com/product-category/adante/
 

bonzo75

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had never seen this before, though I've heard of (but not listened to) Heco. looks a little bit like the Avantgarde Acoustic Zero 1 XD. will try to audition it, since a trip to Germany is already scheduled. thanks.

Much better than the zero IMO, btw, I love the trios
 

Barry2013

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YG speakers in my experience are one of the least fussy speakers for placement
The Carmel 1s should work a treat with your amp and used ones are within your price range.
I had a pair for a number of years before upgrading to Kipod Signature passives as I wanted greater scale to the sound.
Asiufy has a lot of experience with YG and IME you can rely on his advice.
 

andromedaaudio

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I d say a 3 way not completely full range , but definitely. a step up and around that price used :

Kharma CE (or. something ) older series not the ref series but the series below
Avalon eidolon
WP. 7
Magico V 3

Ps the carmel 1 has a 7 inch scanspeak revelator mid /bass unit. iirc ,thats not a full range speaker its a small 2 way with a lot of roll off / okay it has more volume , I doubt it ll be that much better then the one you have .
For a " full range". speaker you want membrane surface and a bigger woofer thats able to play relatively low without much roll off
 
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reverendo

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Mar 10, 2014
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I think the Gryphon will pair beautifully with the YGs. That warm, mellifluous sound will be perfect on the inherently hi-res YGs.
We currently don't have any Carmel 1s, but I believe Bill Parish (GTT Audio) has, both in black and silver.
My problem with the older Dynaudios was the bass. That port could wreak havoc in rooms, and the excess bass would blur everything up above, leaving you with an impression of lack of definition, and not even that beautiful tweeter could save'em. With the new Contours, the port is still there, but the driver design is much improved, and they apparently put out much tighter bass, in spite of the port. Since they're reasonably popular, you might be able to score an audition locally there!
The ELACs have two separate lines running in parallel, the german and the more budget-minded, Andrew Jones designed lines. The Adante is supposed to be Andrew's best design, and from what I heard at CES, it's fairly impressive!
http://elac.com/product-category/adante/

Thanks. Will try to audition a Carmel 1 to see what they're all about.

YG speakers in my experience are one of the least fussy speakers for placement
The Carmel 1s should work a treat with your amp and used ones are within your price range.
I had a pair for a number of years before upgrading to Kipod Signature passives as I wanted greater scale to the sound.
Asiufy has a lot of experience with YG and IME you can rely on his advice.

Thanks, Barry2013. I've known Alex over the internet for a while now and he's always had competent and experienced opinions, but it's always good to see that others have had similar experiences.
Sealed and slender definitely would make it more attractive, as long as the sound is what I'm looking for.
I've had some experience with the Anat in two very different systems of some fellow audiophiles. Those beasts need current and power like crazy. Apart from them I know no other YGs.

I d say a 3 way not completely full range , but definitely. a step up and around that price used :

Kharma CE (or. something ) older series not the ref series but the series below
Avalon eidolon
WP. 7
Magico V 3

Ps the carmel 1 has a 7 inch scanspeak revelator mid /bass unit. iirc ,thats not a full range speaker its a small 2 way with a lot of roll off / okay it has more volume , I doubt it ll be that much better then the one you have .
For a " full range". speaker you want membrane surface and a bigger woofer thats able to play relatively low without much roll off
Thanks andromedaaudio. I get the caveat of the Carmel 1 and that was what I had heard others comment on. Will try to listen to them to get my own impressions.
I've listened to Magico V3 and placement was very fussy and sweet spot very tight. They did play well with ASR though.
WP 7 is a no-go just because of the WAF.
I've heard great things about the Eidolon, but I believe it will be too large of a footprint.
Kharma has always interested me. Hope I can find a CE to audition.
 

LL21

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...I just need to find it within my budget, which shouldn't go over $8-$10k. I have no problem buying used.
....I'm looking for a love-child between Rockport lows and mids and Raidho highs. :D
...they should be able to play equally well at low listening levels. Another important factor is... I need the speakers to be versatile regarding placement and space.
I am extremely aware that this might be a tall order for a speaker within my budget, but who knows, right?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Best
Andre

have you ever considered the Rockport Merak Sheritan II? They now trade comfortably within your range. Personally, at that price, this would be my personal first choice. I find their highs excellent, balanced though [maybe] not as filigreed as some. But they have a solidity and majestic and effortless power with a depth of color, tone that is truly awesome in this price range 2nd hand today
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/904rockport/

Rockport Merak-Sheritan II.jpg
 

JackD201

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You have lots of power.... Check. Like bass that goes at least to the 30s....Check. Should be very easy to pack and move around....Check. Between 8k and 10k....Check.

I would recommend Von Schweikert Audio's Unifield 2 loudspeakers. Lots of reviews on the net from the US and the UK.
 

dctom

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Hi 853guy,
I actually love ATC and know some of them well. ATCs were my reference regarding clear and resolved mids until I heard Rockports. My gripe with ATCs are the highs, which for my preference, to not have that HF extension and decay that I'm looking for. Apart from that the SCM50T would definitely be on my shortlist.
I've also auditioned the Scansonic MB-3.5 in the past. They were great speakers for the price, but they didn't make me want to change my speakers. Their HF is great, but, in my opinion, significantly less refined than Raidho. They are elegant, though, and, at that time, the MB-5 and MB-6 didn't exist, so maybe that would be something to look at. Thanks for the input.

They have brought out their own replacement tweeter now, which can be retro fitted, you may know that. Have you listened to the active as well ?
 

reverendo

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2014
119
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Dallas, TX
have you ever considered the Rockport Merak Sheritan II? They now trade comfortably within your range. Personally, at that price, this would be my personal first choice. I find their highs excellent, balanced though [maybe] not as filigreed as some. But they have a solidity and majestic and effortless power with a depth of color, tone that is truly awesome in this price range 2nd hand today
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/904rockport/

View attachment 31542

every time I hear Rockport I get dreamy-eyed. most well resolved and organic mids and LF I have ever heard. and it was the only time where I actually heard believable LF decay, something that hitherto I didn't know was possible in music reproduction (it was the Avior, but the Atria would be the better fit if it weren't for the price). unfortunately I've never seen this model you're referencing for resale and I always kind of keep a look out for Rockport within a certain price range.
can't help mentioning your source and amp. the colosseum is my personal reference in amplification and I know that sooner or later I'll have to move to Gryphon class A. :D
 
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reverendo

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Mar 10, 2014
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Dallas, TX
You have lots of power.... Check. Like bass that goes at least to the 30s....Check. Should be very easy to pack and move around....Check. Between 8k and 10k....Check.

I would recommend Von Schweikert Audio's Unifield 2 loudspeakers. Lots of reviews on the net from the US and the UK.

I've always been very curious about Von Schweikert. When I was mounting my system I wanted to audition them, but then came the MicroOnes and I didn't get that far, since I knew that I had a gem, especially regarding cost/benefit. That's what gave me the chance to invest more heavily in electronics. I must confess, though, that it's the Unfield 3 that capture my imagination. thanks for reminding me. I just checked and saw what prices they are going for used. that might be something to check out.
 

reverendo

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2014
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Dallas, TX
They have brought out their own replacement tweeter now, which can be retro fitted, you may know that. Have you listened to the active as well ?

I didn't know that. Again, good info. Thanks. I know the SCM 40, which is phenomenal value when you have a very, very powerful and high current amp and the SCM100, which are far easier to handle. both were passive.
 

reverendo

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Mar 10, 2014
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I've been doing some research and have started to create a list of speakers that I will try to audition in order to create a shortlist. This is, at best, a work in progress.
  • Revel Salon 2
  • Carmel 1
  • Kharma CE
  • Heco Dreiklang
  • Von Schweikert Unifield 3 mkII
  • Rockport Merak Sheritan
  • Raidho XT-2
  • Salk Soundscape 8
I will get to know the Endeavor Mk2 tomorrow, although I'm under the suspicion that I might prefer a used Unifield 3 mkII just because of the tweeter, but you never know.
Let's see how many of these and/or others I will be able to get to listen to before pulling the trigger. Luckily I'm in no rush.
Any other inputs based on my first post are more than welcome.
 

JackD201

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I've always been intrigued by Heco's semi-open baffle, Alnico magnet thing they've got going over there. I've never heard a pair though. I hope to someday.
 

reverendo

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Mar 10, 2014
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Endeavor E-3 mkII audition

quick report on the Endeavor MkII yesterday evening.
just a few quick notes: I know Scott's room pretty well, have heard the changes in his system during approximately the last 5 years. It was also where I first heard my current speakers, which I ended up buying from him. He is very careful with electricity and the room treatments that he did a couple of years ago made a significant improvement. We have a similar approach to audio and he is also endlessly curious, like me. I also wanted to listen to a long overdue session of what was a completely new system, since my last visit had been quite a while ago.

The Endeavor System: Laptop w/ JRiver>Dartzeel LHC-208>Endeavor E-3 MkII. SC: Audio Plus Oval 9 (IIRC). Power cable was factory and ethernet was generic.

Very first impression when I started listening to my tracks: these speakers do the disappearing act perfectly and throw a huge, huge sound stage. Now I haven't heard any speakers in Scott's room that haven't done that, but it probably has as much to do with the way he sets his speakers up with the way he chooses speakers. Nonetheless, these are not small speakers and for them to just disappear shows me what they can do given the right circumstances. During the fourth track I noted that they throw a sound stage very similar to what I know from audio physic: very immersive with excellent placement.
On the other hand I know that my favorite trait of Dartzeels are tonal accuracy (which Mr. Hervé does better than anyone else, imo) and a very resolved and organic presentation. Unfortunately that didn't translate through the speakers, which were somewhat grainy and unresolved in the mids and LFs, which, again in my estimation, muddied the larger part of the frequency spectrum and presented a rather unresolved sound. Highs, nonetheless, were very good, which makes me think that they would be even better if the other issues weren't present. Still, I do miss the kind of "air" that Ribbons and AMTs bring to the table, which is, obviously, a personal preference.
If I were to make an educated guess I believe that my Diablo would be a better match, since they drive speakers like nothing else I've heard, but again, I'm biased... there is a reason why I have Gryphon and not Dart. That still doesn't solve what I believe Darts do better than anyone else, which is tonal accuracy and a highly resolved, organic and musical presentation.
The latter part of the evening I auditioned Scott's main system which, by no small margin, now sounds its best. Imo he should tread lightly with any changes, because he's got something very special going on with his G1s, the Dart mono blocks and preamp. I was even able to A/B his Lux D-08 with the NADAC, which for someone who likes to analyze is always a treat.
And so my quest proceeds...
20170320_192036_zpsg36vc87x.jpg
 
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LL21

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Great reading...thanks for taking the time. Will be fun to watch this one evolve...enjoy.
 

Scott W

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One explanation for the midrange and bass Andre found, was because of space limitations I had to place the E3 MkII's to the side of the G1's. This caused the speaker's woofer to fire directly into the G1's woofer and the midrange into the section above. If I can get Andre back over somtime I will move the G1's, and for that matter the Anat III's in the corner, out of the room. I also just got the DAC up and running in the Dart 208 so it was breaking in as well. I know it sounds like I am making excuses, but I absolutely love the E3 MKII's and feel they far outperfom their $8k price tag.

quick report on the Endeavor MkII yesterday evening.
just a few quick notes: I know Scott's room pretty well, have heard the changes in his system during approximately the last 5 years. It was also where I first heard my current speakers, which I ended up buying from him. He is very careful with electricity and the room treatments that he did a couple of years ago made a significant improvement. We have a similar approach to audio and he is also endlessly curious, like me. I also wanted to listen to a long overdue session of what was a completely new system, since my last visit had been quite a while ago.

The Endeavor System: Laptop w/ JRiver>Dartzeel LHC-208>Endeavor E-3 MkII. SC: Audio Plus Oval 9 (IIRC). Power cable was factory and ethernet was generic.

Very first impression when I started listening to my tracks: these speakers do the disappearing act perfectly and throw a huge, huge sound stage. Now I haven't heard any speakers in Scott's room that haven't done that, but it probably has as much to do with the way he sets his speakers up with the way he chooses speakers. Nonetheless, these are not small speakers and for them to just disappear shows me what they can do given the right circumstances. During the fourth track I noted that they throw a sound stage very similar to what I know from audio physic: very immersive with excellent placement.
On the other hand I know that my favorite trait of Dartzeels are tonal accuracy (which Mr. Hervé does better than anyone else, imo) and a very resolved and organic presentation. Unfortunately that didn't translate through the speakers, which were somewhat grainy and unresolved in the mids and LFs, which, again in my estimation, muddied the larger part of the frequency spectrum and presented a rather unresolved sound. Highs, nonetheless, were very good, which makes me think that they would be even better if the other issues weren't present. Still, I do miss the kind of "air" that Ribbons and AMTs bring to the table, which is, obviously, a personal preference.
If I were to make an educated guess I believe that my Diablo would be a better match, since they drive speakers like nothing else I've heard, but again, I'm biased... there is a reason why I have Gryphon and not Dart. That still doesn't solve what I believe Darts do better than anyone else, which is tonal accuracy and a highly resolved, organic and musical presentation.
The latter part of the evening I auditioned Scott's main system which, by no small margin, now sounds its best. Imo he should tread lightly with any changes, because he's got something very special going on with his G1s, the Dart mono blocks and preamp. I was even able to A/B his Lux D-08 with the NADAC, which for someone who likes to analyze is always a treat.
And so my quest proceeds...
View attachment 31611
 
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es347

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Apr 20, 2010
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One explanation for the midrange and bass Andre found, was because of space limitations I had to place the E3 MkII's to the side of the G1's. This caused the speaker's woofer to fire directly into the G1's woofer and the midrange into the section above. If I can get Ander back over somtime I will move the G1's, and for that matter the Anat III's in the corner, out of the room. I also just got the DAC up and running in the Dart 208 so it was breaking in as well. I know it sounds like I am making excuses, but I absolutely love the E3 MKII's and feel they far outperfom their $8k price tag.

..I'm with you Scott having heard the E3s at AXPONA driven by Audio Alchemy electronics and having heard them at my buddy's house driven by several different SS and tube amps. I thought the sonics were stunning especially given the price. Grainy is an adjective I would never associate with the E3s or the E5s. These bad boys wouldn't have won several best-of-shows had there been even a hint of grain in the midrange..
 

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