Visit to DDK

ddk · Mar 17, 2017

beaur said:
I paid a short visit to David's recently. While my bias has already been formed for the type of sound David likes I was still very impressed by what I heard. Upon my entry into his listening room, I was greeted by the tone and scale that I love to hear. Can't remember the music but as I walked to the listening chair, I was struck by the fact that the sound field remained fairly constant no matter where I was in the room. I threw my bags down and then noticed that I was listening to a CD. Given that, and what I heard for the rest of the night I always wonder why people make digital vs. analog a contest. David's digital system is not what most people would consider SOTA, but I was thoroughly enjoying it.

FWIW, my favorite was the Neumann on the AS TT. Had that tone and presence that I am looking for, but frankly I would be happy with any of the sources he has at his disposal including that "old fashioned" CD player!

As has been said before, David is a great host, with an enviable audio system with a bonus of a great view!

Most people who visit don't have a problem with my digital sonically but can't wait to hear the tts, you were one of the very few who actually enjoyed listening to a bunch of CDs before moving on to analog. We went back & forth with Steve when he visited there was a lot of digitized music that we both enjoyed. I think the lack of interest in digital is often because it's easily accessible to everyone but not the tts.

david

DaveyF · Mar 17, 2017

Al M. said:
Then I suggest you read this review by Peter A., who only listens to analog at home on his great SME turntable, of the dCS Rossini:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...win-s-High-End&p=379841&viewfull=1#post379841

Ok, so Peter liked the DCS Rossini in that system. Did you ever have a chance to compare the DCS to your SME, Peter?? I have heard the top-of-the-line MSB Select DAC 11...yes the $90K one!
Was a nice sounding piece, but still had the slight digital edge that I always hear. Let's put it this way, digital is by no means a poor sounding format ( at least not the best that is out there today), it is far superior to
what it was initially. Would I live with it on the long term, sure. However, IMHO---( always IMHO) I would put it third in hierarchy of reproduced sound for the home. First ( for me) is tape, then analog and then digital.

Micro, IF you are hearing "analogitis", I would strongly suggest there is something amiss with your analog front end, LOL.

Steve Williams · Mar 17, 2017

ddk said:
Most people who visit don't have a problem with my digital sonically but can't wait to hear the tts, you were one of the very few who actually enjoyed listening to a bunch of CDs before moving on to analog. We went back & forth with Steve when he visited there was a lot of digitized music that we both enjoyed. I think the lack of interest in digital is often because it's easily accessible to everyone but not the tts.

david

There was no problem with your digital other than an occasional inability of your player to read a CD-ROM

bonzo75 · Mar 17, 2017

DaveyF said:
Ok, so Peter liked the DCS Rossini in that system. Did you ever have a chance to compare the DCS to your SME, Peter?? I have heard the top-of-the-line MSB Select DAC 11...yes the $90K one!
Was a nice sounding piece, but still had the slight digital edge that I always hear. Let's put it this way, digital is by no means a poor sounding format ( at least not the best that is out there today), it is far superior to
what it was initially. Would I live with it on the long term, sure. However, IMHO---( always IMHO) I would put it third in hierarchy of reproduced sound for the home. First ( for me) is tape, then analog and then digital.

Micro, IF you are hearing "analogitis", I would strongly suggest there is something amiss with your analog front end, LOL.

Detlof's MSB and Beast sounded extremely good and he has since upgraded to the select

microstrip · Mar 17, 2017

DaveyF said:
(...) First ( for me) is tape, then analog and then digital.

Micro, IF you are hearing "analogitis", I would strongly suggest there is something amiss with your analog front end, LOL.

Tape is better than analog?

You are really a tape fan! BTW, what is your current tape setup?

I hear "analogitis", fortunately. It is all there! But fortunately I do not listen to it when listening to music.

BTW, I am not interested at all in which format is better, but I am particularly interested in the interaction between system and format. It is MHO, but I think that most of the time people's opinion is mainly due to system and, surely, preferences, including musical preferences.

DaveyF · Mar 17, 2017

microstrip said:
Tape is better than analog? You are really a tape fan! BTW, what is your current tape setup?
It is MHO, but I think that most of the time people's opinion is mainly due to system and, surely, preferences, including musical preferences.

Really, and what is your system and musical bias based upon??

Unfortunately, I do not own tape, too many LP's to collect

..... However, I fail to see why one has to own tape to be an ardent fan??

'Analogitis'--perhaps you could explain why you have invented this term..and what it means to you.

Al M. · Mar 17, 2017

microstrip said:
BTW, I am not interested at all in which format is better, but I am particularly interested in the interaction between system and format. It is MHO, but I think that most of the time people's opinion is mainly due to system and, surely, preferences, including musical preferences.

I tend to agree with you. Systems that have both analog and digital sources often sound much better on one of these, presumably since the owner has optimized the better sounding source because it is his preference to begin with.

For some reason, in some systems also the tonal balance of the sources is different, with one sounding 'right' and the other one less so. It seems that it is hard to optimize a system for both.

One more reason, among several ones, for me to stick to just one source, in my case digital.

microstrip · Mar 17, 2017

DaveyF said:
Really, and what is your system and musical bias based upon??

Unfortunately, I do not own tape, too many LP's to collect..... However, I fail to see why one has to own tape to be an ardent fan??

'Analogitis'--perhaps you could explain why you have invented this term..and what it means to you.

I have told my biases and system too many times in WBF - perhaps I should collect the posts and put it in the "about" section. Usually the system is in the signature, it is changing now.

Surely we can be fans of products without having them - but I think that ownership is an important factor in debates. We are surely able to have opinions on products we do not own, but I consider in a different way the opinions of people who have large and/or long experience and those of the people who have listened in shops, shows or friend's systems. YMMV, surely.

I used the word "analogitis" just to refer to the characteristic sound of vinyl. Surely my experience with tape - an A80 machine and two tens of Tapeproject quality tapes, added to a few auditions in friends A820 or M15A, is not enough to pretend I am an expert in tape sound quality.

Al M. · Mar 17, 2017

microstrip said:
I used the word "analogitis" just to refer to the characteristic sound of vinyl.

By saying that you probably knew that this question had to come:

What is, in your opinion, the characteristic sound of vinyl?

PeterA · Mar 17, 2017

DaveyF said:
Ok, so Peter liked the DCS Rossini in that system. Did you ever have a chance to compare the DCS to your SME, Peter?? I have heard the top-of-the-line MSB Select DAC 11...yes the $90K one!
Was a nice sounding piece, but still had the slight digital edge that I always hear. Let's put it this way, digital is by no means a poor sounding format ( at least not the best that is out there today), it is far superior to
what it was initially. Would I live with it on the long term, sure. However, IMHO---( always IMHO) I would put it third in hierarchy of reproduced sound for the home. First ( for me) is tape, then analog and then digital.

Micro, IF you are hearing "analogitis", I would strongly suggest there is something amiss with your analog front end, LOL.

Hi DaveyF, Yes, I did like the sound of the Rossini in that system. I think it approached the sound of good vinyl, though the system was unfamiliar, so I can not be sure. It is a very good DAC, at least in the context of that transparent system. What I do remember, and what I wrote in my linked post, is that the Rossini excelled in two areas: resolution and naturalness. In this sense, it reminds me of really good vinyl. I did not hear the familiar glare/harshness or distortion in the high frequencies that usually gives me fatigue. I have never directly compared the Rossini to my SME, but in certain respects, they do similar things well.

I have heard a Vivaldi DAC and Kronos in the same familiar system, but that is a topic for a different thread. I apologize, David, for taking your thread a bit off topic. It sounds as if Ron and Tinka were treated to a very fun couple of days. Ron, thank you for that vivid description of your trip. It sure sounds like a unique and very enjoyable system.

KeithR · Mar 17, 2017

DaveyF said:
Ok, so Peter liked the DCS Rossini in that system. Did you ever have a chance to compare the DCS to your SME, Peter?? I have heard the top-of-the-line MSB Select DAC 11...yes the $90K one!
Was a nice sounding piece, but still had the slight digital edge that I always hear. Let's put it this way, digital is by no means a poor sounding format ( at least not the best that is out there today), it is far superior to
what it was initially. Would I live with it on the long term, sure. However, IMHO---( always IMHO) I would put it third in hierarchy of reproduced sound for the home. First ( for me) is tape, then analog and then digital.

Micro, IF you are hearing "analogitis", I would strongly suggest there is something amiss with your analog front end, LOL.

Davey, where did you hear the MSB Select2 vs top flight analog?

Barry · Mar 17, 2017

Al M. said:
Systems that have both analog and digital sources often sound much better on one of these, presumably since the owner has optimized the better sounding source because it is his preference to begin with.

For some reason, in some systems also the tonal balance of the sources is different, with one sounding 'right' and the other one less so. It seems that it is hard to optimize a system for both.

Yes, it is really hard to optimize a system for multiple sources, but that's why I like having 3. This gives me a way to triangulate optimizing any system mods. When something is changed, the sound of all 3 sources has to improve or I know there's something wrong, most likely (although not necessarily), with the source that doesn't sound better. It helps that I've lived with most of the components I've modified for several years, so I know how the overall sound has changed and what I did to make it happen.

jeff1225 · Mar 17, 2017

David,
Why don't we hear about the Micro Seikis during member's visits? Scott's Micro Seiki 8000 with SME 3012r is one of the best turntables I've ever heard. And yes, for the trollers, there were other tables to compare the 8000 with in the same system.

ddk · Mar 17, 2017

jeffrey_t said:
David,
Why don't we hear about the Micro Seikis during member's visits? Scott's Micro Seiki 8000 with SME 3012r is one of the best turntables I've ever heard. And yes, for the trollers, there were other tables to compare the 8000 with in the same system.

Because they're all gone to friends, specially one of them bought my SZ-1, two SX-8000II, an SX-8000, RX-5000 and the 2nd EMT 927 that I had. The Micros are among the very best ever made too. I miss them at times but I have enough tables to play with, time for others to enjoy them. Reason why I moved the AF-1 to the Micro room, because they're gone.

david

Steve Williams · Mar 17, 2017

ddk said:
Because they're all gone to friends, specially one of them bought my SZ-1, two SX-8000II, an SX-8000, RX-5000 and the 2nd EMT 927 that I had. The Micros are among the very best ever made too. I miss them at times but I have enough tables to play with, time for others to enjoy them. Reason why I moved the AF-1 to the Micro room, because they're gone.

david

did I hear one of your MS in your small near field listening room

ddk · Mar 17, 2017

Steve Williams said:
did I hear one of your MS in your small near field listening room

You heard everything besides the Goldmund Steve

!

david

Steve Williams · Mar 17, 2017

Well at the time you had 4 MS set up and several EMT 920's ?? sitting on the floor

I was like a kid in Toyland at Christmas

ddk · Mar 17, 2017

Steve Williams said:
Well at the time you had 4 MS set up and several EMT 920's ?? sitting on the floor

I was like a kid in Toyland at Christmas

All gone...
david

caesar · Mar 18, 2017

Thanks for sharing the experience! Are there any modern brands that exhibit the sound in DDK's system?

PeterA · Mar 18, 2017

Ron Resnick said:
...

In addition to how horn drivers in general seem to connect to the air in a way which recreates realistically the sound of brass instruments, David's speakers bathe the listening room in sound. The Bionors immerse the listener in a field of sound which is not directional, and which gave me more than I've ever experienced before the sensation of sitting in the audience at a jazz club and listening to a live performance on stage in front of me.

It is as though the sound flows out of the wall and is not emitted by boxes or discrete driver devices. In a sense the sound does flow out of a wall because the Bionors together effectively form a wall of speakers. You do not worry about being "off-axis."

Tinka and I agreed that this was the most involving and realistic replay of Send in the Clowns we have heard thus far in our travels!

We also played:

"The Rose" by Amanda McBroom, Growing Up in Hollywood Town (Sheffield Lab 13)

Rhiannon by Fleetwood Mac, Fleetwood Mac (MFSL)

Jennifer Warnes, Famous Blue Raincoat (Rock the House Records/Classic Records) (I know this is a digital recording.)

Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah, Grace

For some reason the magical realism which David's system bestows on well-recorded jazz and classical performances does not extend to multi-track pop of unexceptional recording quality....

Ron, thank you for this fascinating report. It is well written and very descriptive. What a great opportunity you and Tinka had. I am particularly interested in, and a bit surprised by, the section which I quote above. Why do you think that David's system sounded so convincing on well-recorded jazz and classical music but not on your beloved pop recordings? Is it simply unexceptional recording quality? You have used these same recordings as references during your travels to audition the gear that you will buy to assemble your future system, most notably, your speakers. Has this experience effected your thoughts about your personal reference LPs?

This leads me to wonder about a more general observation: Can a system be optimized for all music and formats, or is it more likely that a system excels, or is tailor designed, to sound best with certain types of music or a specific source format? I have thought of David's system as being one of the few on WBF that would seem to have few, if any, sonic limitations.

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