Tripoint Troy Se or Esoteric G01X/Grandioso G1 Master clock

Stereophonic

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2013
891
671
410
Spain
Hi.
I see here very Troy owners with lot of experience and Esoteric owners too.
My system is as follows:

• Tad CR1
• Tad C600
• Esoteric D02X
• Aurender N100H
• Classe Omega Monoblocks
• Siltech Emperor SC
• Siltech Empress IC
• Siltech Octopus Ag/Si
• Siltech Ruby DC to Octopus
• Siltech Ruby Mountain ii NCF connectors
• Siltech Explore USB
• Furutech Rhodium Wall Outlet
• Audioquest Vodka/Cinnamon ethernet cables

I have to upgrade my music server but i'm waiting for the future move from Esoteric to a reference server with Es-Link outputs to match properly with my D02X.

Now i'm researching what kind of improvement i have to do now.
Obviously the Master Clock is mandatory but i'm very confused with the launch of the G01X/G1 ones with only 3000€ difference between them. All Esoteric owners saids that the 10 Mhz is the better connection so the G1 is the way to go in my opinion.
On the other side the D02X and K1 were launched with two months of difference but the last has the last AKM4497 vs the AKM4490 on the D02X. That is very confusing too. Is that a sign that we could see a Grandioso D1 single block with AKM4497 soon? If that happens i would upgrade my D02X.

On the other side, is very interesting to me the Troy experience that are you expressing but the Tripoint's web doesn't explain the different working options.

I'm thinking between Troy vs Esoteric Clock purchase.
• What option do you think will let me more SQ improvement?
• What options Tripoint offers on PC and what is the sound impact?
• What options Tripoint offers on Grounding cables and what is the sound impact?
• whats the price of each component?

So many questions, so little answers.

King Regards to all.
 
Last edited:

Believe High Fidelity

[Industry Expert]
Nov 19, 2015
1,665
318
355
Hutto TX
ibelieveinhifi.com
From your current solution of components I can see more benefit coming from the Tripoint than the digital upgrade. If you have a dedicated line running to your room then I might say go with the Esoteric upgrade, but that's what I would do given your two choices presented.

Just my .02 Best of luck
 

SCAudiophile

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2010
1,156
435
1,205
Greer South Carolina (USA)

Thanks Elberoth,...that's an excellent thread with the most detail and master clocking basic facts that I've seen on any forum. Using a ground solution of choice plus a Cybershaft or other 10mHz master clock is definitely the way to go, i.e. not giving up on one path of improvement for the sake of spending on the other. Candidly though, I do question the need to spend the type of money that some grounding schemes demand to obtain huge differences in performance. This particularly the case when requests for real facts about what is happening and what kind of design is in these uber-expensive grounding units and cables (there is more than 1 vendor I'm thinking of and have communicated with) is meant with droning on in conversation about simply being the best and a ton of hyperbole instead of facts. No way that amount is getting spent (at least here) on any mysterious black or wood boxes and cables. Contrast that with upper end transports, DACs, pre-amps and amps (and even speakers) where many manufacturers are more than happy to let you see inside the box to at least have a notion that there is something of real value and sophistication in there...

Purely FWIW,...
 

Stereophonic

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2013
891
671
410
Spain
Thanks Elberoth.
I was waiting the SCAudiophile answer as Cybershaft owner.
Very interesting but a little surprising product.
I did read the SCA posts about the Cybershaft clocks time ago.
I'll read it again.
 

SCAudiophile

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2010
1,156
435
1,205
Greer South Carolina (USA)
Thanks Elberoth.
I was waiting the SCAudiophile answer as Cybershaft owner.
Very interesting but a little surprising product.
I did read the SCA posts about the Cybershaft clocks time ago.
I'll read it again.

I am happy to answer any additional or more details questions; work has been pulling a lot of time lately. Apologies for the delays in responding.

That thread that Elberoth pointed to also has a bit of feedback from me and a lot of great testing/summary data from him and others on OCX versus
Rb-based master clocking and the impact. There are also test results from Cybershaft, Esoteric and others summarized by Elberoth and others there.
Check out the CAudio thread; it is excellent. Also, send me here any additional questions you might have; happy to help. I currently am running
2 Cybershaft clocks;

RBOCXO-01; Dual Master clock, Rb and OCX separate circuits/sides with 1 each 50-ohm 10 mHz outputs. Note that I left the Rb side behind MANY months
ago and have been running solely with the OCXO side (OP13 level at least for phase noise, etc...specs benchmarked against BVA and Symmeticron (sp?) devices.

Ultra Premium OCXO (OP14 level) with Schottky barrier-diode equipped power supply; testing this prototype as a gate to forthcoming new models...

Very happy with Cybershaft clocks and their impact on my system; the price being so reasonable and the build quality at A+ is a bonus!
 

stehno

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2014
1,585
456
405
Salem, OR
Hi.
I see here very Troy owners with lot of experience and Esoteric owners too.
My system is as follows:

• Tad CR1
• Tad C600
• Esoteric D02X
• Aurender N100H
• Classe Omega Monoblocks
• Siltech Emperor SC
• Siltech Empress IC
• Siltech Octopus Ag/Si
• Siltech Ruby DC to Octopus
• Siltech Ruby Mountain ii NCF connectors
• Siltech Explore USB
• Furutech Rhodium Wall Outlet
• Audioquest Vodka/Cinnamon ethernet cables

I have to upgrade my music server but i'm waiting for the future move from Esoteric to a reference server with Es-Link outputs to match properly with my D02X.

Now i'm researching what kind of improvement i have to do now.
Obviously the Master Clock is mandatory but i'm very confused with the launch of the G01X/G1 ones with only 3000€ difference between them. All Esoteric owners saids that the 10 Mhz is the better connection so the G1 is the way to go in my opinion.
On the other side the D02X and K1 were launched with two months of difference but the last has the last AKM4497 vs the AKM4490 on the D02X. That is very confusing too. Is that a sign that we could see a Grandioso D1 single block with AKM4497 soon? If that happens i would upgrade my D02X.

On the other side, is very interesting to me the Troy experience that are you expressing but the Tripoint's web doesn't explain the different working options.

I'm thinking between Troy vs Esoteric Clock purchase.
• What option do you think will let me more SQ improvement?
• What options Tripoint offers on PC and what is the sound impact?
• What options Tripoint offers on Grounding cables and what is the sound impact?
• whats the price of each component?

So many questions, so little answers.

King Regards to all.


Some years ago I was an in-home dealer for Esoteric and for my system I owned the UX-3SE unit which was no slouch by any means. At the suggestion of another, I took possession of the G-03 master clock and after several months of trying various ways and means, I eventually returned the unit to Esoteric informing them that I could not in good conscience sell a product that provided so little sonic value. Not to say I had the ideal digital cable running between the two Esoteric units, but one of them was rated well for its performance.

Also, there are several things to consider when purchasing an additional component including:

1. Asking strangers what they think of a product's performance is not too unlike asking strangers what ice cream you eat. No matter how detailed or articulate they may sound. Point being that some of us get overly excited and do metaphoric cartwheels anytime we hear a change (maybe not even an improvement).
2. The potential noise/distortion induced by yet another component's untreated noisy AC power supply.
3. The potential noise/distortion induced by yet another component's vibrations generated by a vibratiing power supply and other internal electronics, not to mention air-borne vibrations captured at the extra chassis and then trapped within to fully expel its energy on the more easily excitable internals.
4. Rule #1 in any performance-oriented industry is, less is more, and high-end audio is no exceptiont to that rule.​

Both of these distortions from #2 and especially #3 are massive and could easily negate or minimize the potential benefits the extra component is intended to bring.

BTW, it seems you have a passion for Esoteric gear and I appreciate that. However, I have to say that right out of the box the OPPO 105D UCDP was marginally superior to the UX-3SE's performance. And once I utilized its passive attenuator and especially when by-passing its CD transport the OPPO easily trounced the UX-3SE's performance. Moreover, considering the Esoteric costing nearly 7 times the OPPO, it was a bit of a joke IMO.

As for somebody mentioning a dedicated line / lines having any weight in your decision, IME I'm not seeing it. For several reasons:

1. Noisy AC coming in from the street is universal and a dedicated line does nothing to minimize that except to ensure the same amount of noisy AC coming in from the street remains dedicated to the dedicated line(s).

2. Whether shared or dedicated, digital equipment induces a bi-direction digital noise that goes back out into the AC and some say all the way back to the service panel and induces its digital hash sonic harm on other components. In fact, since you would then own two digital Esoteric units potentially inducing bi-directional noise elsewhere into the system, the implication is you would then have one more new problem to address just with the bi-directional digital noise.

3. A dedicated line or lines serve only 2 purposes at most:

a) Ensure high-current drawing amps have enough juice for complex and/or dynamic passages.
b) Help minimize some of the distortions caused within the house from appliances, dimmers, etc.​

4. IME, the only remedy for 1 and 2 above is superior line conditioning (if you can find such a one) that includes bi-directional filtering to prevent the bi-directional digital noise from going back into the wall. In fact, with superior line conditioning everywhere, there should only be one reason for having any dedicated lines at all and that's to ensure a high-current drawing amp always has sufficient power.

The above comments should have little or nothing directly to do with the Tripoint Troy SE for which I've no experience but have heard they are reasonably solid performers. But then again, for the past 16 years I was using for every component some of the industry's best passive, dedicated, and bi-directonal filtering line conditiioners (with grounds lifted) from now defunct Foundation Research.

Assuming there's any truth to what I said above about dedicated lines, I guess my question is, why would 1 or more dedicated lines have any weight in this matter with regard to the Troy SE vs Esoteric G-02? Or even without regard to the Troy SE vs Esoteric G-02?

 

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2011
3,053
3,172
1,410
Hong Kong
I am happy to answer any additional or more details questions; work has been pulling a lot of time lately. Apologies for the delays in responding.
That thread that Elberoth pointed to also has a bit of feedback from me and a lot of great testing/summary data from him and others on OCX versus
Rb-based master clocking and the impact. There are also test results from Cybershaft, Esoteric and others summarized by Elberoth and others there.
Check out the CAudio thread; it is excellent. Also, send me here any additional questions you might have; happy to help. I currently am running
2 Cybershaft clocks;
RBOCXO-01; Dual Master clock, Rb and OCX separate circuits/sides with 1 each 50-ohm 10 mHz outputs. Note that I left the Rb side behind MANY months
ago and have been running solely with the OCXO side (OP13 level at least for phase noise, etc...specs benchmarked against BVA and Symmeticron (sp?) devices.
Ultra Premium OCXO (OP14 level) with Schottky barrier-diode equipped power supply; testing this prototype as a gate to forthcoming new models...
Very happy with Cybershaft clocks and their impact on my system; the price being so reasonable and the build quality at A+ is a bonus!

The Cybershaft is a steal!
There are now about 40 audiophiles in Hong Kong using Cybershaft Premium clocks.
Cybershaft is definitely beneficial to Esoteric & CH Precision digital frontends.
There are several dCS users too. Cybershaft into Vivaldi Clock gives improvement as well.

Be quick! The op14 is sold out and very soon op13 will be so too. :b
 

SCAudiophile

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2010
1,156
435
1,205
Greer South Carolina (USA)
The Cybershaft is a steal!
There are now about 40 audiophiles in Hong Kong using Cybershaft Premium clocks.
Cybershaft is definitely beneficial to Esoteric & CH Precision digital frontends.
There are several dCS users too. Cybershaft into Vivaldi Clock gives improvement as well.

Be quick! The op14 is sold out and very soon op13 will be so too. :b

Great feedback,...thank you! There are more than a few people who now enjoy the various clocks in their Esoteric, DCS and other systems including those with off the shelf as well as home-built music servers in the US, Canada, Japan, etc....In addition from what I'm told both before and after purchase, many audio and video studios make use of their products for professional mastering and playback purposes.

The RBOCXO-01 is my own clock bought when I found Cybershaft early in 2017; I've been a convert ever since. In the distant past I've owned the Esoteric G-0s and later a G-03x (found the results to be more musical and less overly-precise/analytical with the G-03x over the G-0s) after which time with the upgrade from P-03U/D-03 to P-02/D-02, I found that the onboard OCXO clock implementation in the D-02 was superior in sound to the then 5 year old G-03x. I had thought about Esoteric G-02, G-01, Antelope, SRS, BVA and others when the time came to add a traditional (i.e. frequency multiple 75-ohm) or 10 mHz clock to my P-02/D-02 stack but frankly the Cybershaft jumped off the page one day while doing research and getting put off by prices I was finding versus true performance, aesthetics and other factors. I'm glad I took the plunge and have been a very happy customer ever since.

The OP14 prototype I am testing is here for a while now and I would have already picked it up to be my own except there may be other things that may come out the prototyping for which I am happy to wait.

It is certainly true that OP14 and similar high-precision, ultra-low phase noise clock modules are in limited supply right now, at least the ones that pass extremely rigorous testing. If someone were interested
in a OP14 destination unit, I would certainly suggest that same thing...."Be Quick!" and pick it up!

Have a great day!
 
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SCAudiophile

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2010
1,156
435
1,205
Greer South Carolina (USA)

Some years ago I was an in-home dealer for Esoteric and for my system I owned the UX-3SE unit which was no slouch by any means. At the suggestion of another, I took possession of the G-03 master clock and after several months of trying various ways and means, I eventually returned the unit to Esoteric informing them that I could not in good conscience sell a product that provided so little sonic value. Not to say I had the ideal digital cable running between the two Esoteric units, but one of them was rated well for its performance.

Also, there are several things to consider when purchasing an additional component including:

1. Asking strangers what they think of a product's performance is not too unlike asking strangers what ice cream you eat. No matter how detailed or articulate they may sound. Point being that some of us get overly excited and do metaphoric cartwheels anytime we hear a change (maybe not even an improvement).
2. The potential noise/distortion induced by yet another component's untreated noisy AC power supply.
3. The potential noise/distortion induced by yet another component's vibrations generated by a vibratiing power supply and other internal electronics, not to mention air-borne vibrations captured at the extra chassis and then trapped within to fully expel its energy on the more easily excitable internals.
4. Rule #1 in any performance-oriented industry is, less is more, and high-end audio is no exceptiont to that rule.​

Both of these distortions from #2 and especially #3 are massive and could easily negate or minimize the potential benefits the extra component is intended to bring.

BTW, it seems you have a passion for Esoteric gear and I appreciate that. However, I have to say that right out of the box the OPPO 105D UCDP was marginally superior to the UX-3SE's performance. And once I utilized its passive attenuator and especially when by-passing its CD transport the OPPO easily trounced the UX-3SE's performance. Moreover, considering the Esoteric costing nearly 7 times the OPPO, it was a bit of a joke IMO.

As for somebody mentioning a dedicated line / lines having any weight in your decision, IME I'm not seeing it. For several reasons:

1. Noisy AC coming in from the street is universal and a dedicated line does nothing to minimize that except to ensure the same amount of noisy AC coming in from the street remains dedicated to the dedicated line(s).

2. Whether shared or dedicated, digital equipment induces a bi-direction digital noise that goes back out into the AC and some say all the way back to the service panel and induces its digital hash sonic harm on other components. In fact, since you would then own two digital Esoteric units potentially inducing bi-directional noise elsewhere into the system, the implication is you would then have one more new problem to address just with the bi-directional digital noise.

3. A dedicated line or lines serve only 2 purposes at most:
a) Ensure high-current drawing amps have enough juice for complex and/or dynamic passages.
b) Help minimize some of the distortions caused within the house from appliances, dimmers, etc.​

4. IME, the only remedy for 1 and 2 above is superior line conditioning (if you can find such a one) that includes bi-directional filtering to prevent the bi-directional digital noise from going back into the wall. In fact, with superior line conditioning everywhere, there should only be one reason for having any dedicated lines at all and that's to ensure a high-current drawing amp always has sufficient power.

The above comments should have little or nothing directly to do with the Tripoint Troy SE for which I've no experience but have heard they are reasonably solid performers. But then again, for the past 16 years I was using for every component some of the industry's best passive, dedicated, and bi-directonal filtering line conditiioners (with grounds lifted) from now defunct Foundation Research.

Assuming there's any truth to what I said above about dedicated lines, I guess my question is, why would 1 or more dedicated lines have any weight in this matter with regard to the Troy SE vs Esoteric G-02? Or even without regard to the Troy SE vs Esoteric G-02?


Good Day!

This is a great post and I agree with every one of your points on power, line conditioning, etc...they definitely all tie with what I've run acrossed as well. With respect to the UX-3SE, I remember that unit and it was good at the time but there other units on the market and from Esoteric that were MUCH better! I also have no doubt the impact of adding a clock to the UX-3SE would not have been as impressive as adding a clock to a higher-performing or more modern Esoteric unit in the upper 3-4 tiers. I own an Oppo 105D as well and am very happy with it for Universal Player duty and it's overall video performance but I would still give the significant upper hand for full frequency playback to the new Esoteric units out there. FWIW,.....
 

Stereophonic

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2013
891
671
410
Spain


Also, there are several things to consider when purchasing an additional component including:

1. Asking strangers what they think of a product's performance is not too unlike asking strangers what ice cream you eat. No matter how detailed or articulate they may sound. Point being that some of us get overly excited and do metaphoric cartwheels anytime we hear a change (maybe not even an improvement).



With all my respect.
You doesn't discovered anything to me with this affimation. If i take it seriously i wouldn't read your message and your experience wouldn't be practical to anybody.
Otherway i've read it and i always learn with differents points of view an experiences, like yours in this case.
I like that forum to be in contact with music lovers and interchange impressions of that hobby. That is funny to us.
I've never purchased a product without being listened on my system.
I love Esoteric gear for sure, even more after listening ON MY SYSTEM high Dacs like Dcs, ARC, Tad, Wadia, etc....
I had an Esoteric UX 03 SE too and it was miles away from the sound i have now.
King Regards.​
 

SCAudiophile

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2010
1,156
435
1,205
Greer South Carolina (USA)
Last edited:

Stereophonic

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2013
891
671
410
Spain
Here is the answer:

Thank you for your interest in our products.
We do not hesitate to recommend OCXO Premium+OP13 for D-02X and Grandioso K1.
Because D-02X and K1 has very high precision.

We have many D-02X users and two Grandioso K1 user.
And our OCXO Premium OP13-14 products have satisfied those users by perfection.

Our OCXO Limited production has been completed. It will not be produced again.
We already sold out OCXO Premium OP14 and OP13.
We may be able to offer OP13 or OP14 after a month. However, it is very slight.
The product of the best characteristic of the product we can currently provide is COXO Premium OP12.

Our audio products are translated on the link below and can be read in English.
https://translate.google.co.jp/tran...ttp://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/&sandbox=1

The guide page of overseas trading of our products is on the link below.
http://www.cybershaft.jp/overseas01.html

Our all products satisfy Japanese safety standards. However, our product does not have the certification of UL and CE. If you accept this matter, we will ship a product to your country.

We accept payment method in Paypal only.

If you have any questions, please let me know
 

Legolas

VIP/Donor
Dec 27, 2015
1,042
387
455
France
Hi.
I see here very Troy owners with lot of experience and Esoteric owners too.
My system is as follows:

• Tad CR1
• Tad C600
• Esoteric D02X
• Aurender N100H
• Classe Omega Monoblocks
• Siltech Emperor SC
• Siltech Empress IC
• Siltech Octopus Ag/Si
• Siltech Ruby DC to Octopus
• Siltech Ruby Mountain ii NCF connectors
• Siltech Explore USB
• Furutech Rhodium Wall Outlet
• Audioquest Vodka/Cinnamon ethernet cables

I have to upgrade my music server but i'm waiting for the future move from Esoteric to a reference server with Es-Link outputs to match properly with my D02X.

Now i'm researching what kind of improvement i have to do now.

King Regards to all.

Not wanting to throw the baby out of the pram, BUT I would demo some more DACs. IMO the Esoteric range is over complex and over priced and can be bettered by simpler R-2R designs. I demo'd the K-01 last year and it was beat by my AMR DP-777 which is 1/4 the price, which in turn was soundly beat by my Audio Note DAC 5. Good DACs to try IMO are Lampizator Golden Gate, Aqua Formula, and if the budget is no problem demo the Areas Kassandre. I am convinced you will get better sound there.
 

SCAudiophile

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2010
1,156
435
1,205
Greer South Carolina (USA)
Thanks SCA !!!
I don't know what to think about the difficult with english !!!
:confused:

That he does his best to understand each incoming mail and do his best to answer it :)
 

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