Kuzma Stabi XL DC vs TechDAS Air Force III

abeidrov

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Jack, thank you very much. Your answers are really informative and help me the most.
Have you had any experience with Artesania racks? I understand, that they are sometimes offered together with TechDAS TT. At least, this is the case in Japan and Russia.
 

JackD201

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I've heard them in use many times but I've never used them personally. Bobby (fellow VSA Distributor) in Singapore and yes, the TechDAS people in Japan like them. They offer very good value according to those that have invested in them.

Glad I can help in whatever way I can Aziz :)
 

JackD201

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I like the duralumin I have heard at Steve's, and which is in many Munich rooms. I believe that is the thing that gives the midbass jump. Is the 3 closer to that or to the SS. From your description it sounds it's closer to the duralmin, but is not made of duralmin?

Closer to the SS. The Duralumin is more extended but the SS has bigger tone. The AF3 and AF2 platters are SS but coated, the SS on the AF1 is nude.
 

jeff1225

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Personally I love the look of the AFIII as it is close to the original Micro Seiki design, especially the armboard lay out. With the money saved on the AFIII, one could purchase a Minus K and have a great set up.
 

JackD201

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Personally I love the look of the AFIII as it is close to the original Micro Seiki design, especially the armboard lay out. With the money saved on the AFIII, one could purchase a Minus K and have a great set up.

Even on its own :) I just realized I was nitpicking it vs stablemates twice and four times its price. LOL. That's value!
 

dctom

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Just to put my 2 penny worth in about the XL, it does not suffer in the slightest from sub sonic disturbance, even at full vol, with a dual 18" IB sub (goes well below 10Hz) and 15" free standing sub. It is silent between tracks on a decent piece of vinyl*, absolutely no motor noise or rumble. Draws one into the music and, delivers outstanding bass detail and weight which I guess has something to do with it's 22Kg platter.

Fairly old school design compared to the AF 3 but works well for me.

*Btw I have found some cartridges are more susceptible to surface noise than others.
 

abeidrov

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I've had an opportunity to listen and compare AF2 and AF3 on 2 occasions. Both times I first listened to AF2, than the tonearm was moved to AF3. To be honest, I did not expect that the difference in sound would be so vast. It was not just in the bass area, overall, the sound of AF3 simply lacked definition comparing to AF2. In some cases I even thought, that the sound was somehow distorted. Maybe it's the lack of a suspension with the AF3.
To say that I am disappointed would be a big understatement. In my view, a table that retails for nearly $30K shall not sound like that. On the other hand, AF2 is an amazing table and that's the one I want now:)
 

gian60

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Apr 17, 2016
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Italian distributors of Techies sold 3 AF3 and his customers give back Kuxma XL,another Grand Prix Monaco and other the top Brinkmann

I don't know if bought because sound is better or to change and have possibility of arms,but sure if sound was worse didn't change.

Also i am interesting in AF3 or Af2,but absolutely i dont like the look of AF2

We see
Regards
 

abeidrov

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Are there any AF3 owners here? Maybe they can comment.
 

JackD201

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I have a floor unit and recently went to show successfully with AF3. No problems for us here but to be fair the AF3 we've only used on CMS Black Diamond PXK racks. AF2 is not as picky IME. We've set them up at customers places on various surfaces from acrylic to hardwoods.
 

theophile

Well-Known Member
All non-suspended turntables need isolation. Regardless of whether the designer is unaware and denies the fact. Regardless of whether the end-user is ecstatic about their current sound. Regardless of whether reviewers agree or not. Anyone using a non-suspended turntable without isolation has not yet heard what their turntable is capable of. Many disagree with this stance. Citing that their turntable is the exception or that it couldn't get any better. They are absolutely wrong.
 

tedtag

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Jul 19, 2016
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Are there any AF3 owners here? Maybe they can comment.

I just set up my AF3 yesterday and absolutely love it! I went with the AF3 because I felt it had everything I was looking for. I liked the way it looked compared to the AF1 or AF2, and really didn't want to spend the extra money for the more expensive tables. Plus, I felt with proper set up and accessories it would provide all the quality sound I could want. The arm is a 10.5" Graham Phantom Elite with the TechDas cartridge, all mounted on an Artesania Tandem Rack with the TT shelf. The phono cable is a crazy expensive Stealth.

I went with the TechDas instead of a Kronos for a lot of reasons. First I like how Japanese Audiophiles have embraced vinyl with a deep passion and long history; Koetsu, Ikeda, Jeff's continual references to Yazaki-san (http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/. Plus, I am a fanatic about cartridge set up and the suction feature just made sense. I can't imagine the stress on a cartridge while tracking a warped record. After spending hours dialing in Azimuth and then watching the arm contort sideways as it tries to follow a warped groove, its almost unbearable. And I'd bet many of our records have even minor amounts of warp that may not be all that apparent. The air bearing is another feature that is pure genius and again makes good sense. In fact it makes me wonder about the condition of the bearings in my VPI? Or any metal bearings for that matter......

Set up was really simple and all of the packaging of the TT, the arm, and the Artesania rack were exceptional. I also appreciated the detail and clarity of the owners manuals. TechDas in particular did a spectacular job in organizing the set up and operation manuals and the translation to English was impeccable. To me, these details are very reassuring in addition to smoothing out set up, which can be quite intimidating. I'd bet I'm not the only audiophile who cringes with a mixture of anxiety and eager anticipation when opening a TT or tonearm box, knowing that set up could be a Bear. TechDas and Graham made it a pleasure. Bob Graham has been terrific and totally available and accommodating for any help I've needed.

All of this is earmarked for a new system that is slowly coming together. My dedicated room is done but that's another story. For now the rest of the system I'm listening to includes a pair of Maggie 3.7i's, Carver Black Beauty amps, and a CAT Legend preamp with phono stage. Just with those components sort of thrown together, it sounds fantastic. I'll be upgrading to Vivid Spirits and Cat Amps soon. Even though I'm a vinyl guy, I also just ordered a new CD/Dac; the MBL N31. Once everything is here, Jim Smith is coming over to help dial it all in.

Anyway, I could not be more pleased with the AF3, tonearm, cartridge, phono cable, and the rack. They all seem to work perfectly together and the whole seems to be much greater than the sum the parts. I'll report back when the Spirits are in place and then again when the amps and the N31 arrive. One final thought. I'd like to give a shout out to my dealer George at Kyomi Audio. He has been fantastic to work with and really knows his stuff. Happy listening!
 

JackD201

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Congratulations Ted. Yes, the AF3 is ridiculously simple to set up considering it still does require some assembly. I had a lot of fun setting it up both at home, packing it up then doing it all over again at show. It is currently the table used by Florian and Thierry at CH Precision and by Dan D'Agostino as their vinyl sources. You are in very good company! :D
 

gian60

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Apr 17, 2016
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Dear Ted and Jack,
i am also very interesting to buy AF3 because i need a turntable with 3/4 arms because i have many cartridges and i like a lot AF3
For now i cannot buy AF1 and AF2,even if i read the sound is very good and much better than AF3,i don't like the look.

But i am dubious because if you spend a lot of money for AF3 plus 3/4 arms and then you have a turntable good but not as good like AF2 or Kronos or old Micro 8000,
so i don't know hoe to do

So really is much worse than Kronos and AF2?

Thanks
Gianluigi
 

gian60

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Apr 17, 2016
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For Ted and Jack,did you compare AF3 with AF2 and AF1?
The difference are big?
 

abeidrov

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Dec 17, 2015
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Hi Ted. Congratulations on the new TT. Have you had a chance to compare AF3 to any other TT before buying it? I compared an AF3 to an AF2, and the difference was not subtle. So, I decided to wait and see if I can do more comparisons to other TT models like Kuzma Stabi M, TW Acoustic or maybe an Acoustic Signature model. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to arrange such a comparison as all these turntables are not in stock.
 

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2010
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I just set up my AF3 yesterday and absolutely love it! I went with the AF3 because I felt it had everything I was looking for. I liked the way it looked compared to the AF1 or AF2, and really didn't want to spend the extra money for the more expensive tables. Plus, I felt with proper set up and accessories it would provide all the quality sound I could want. The arm is a 10.5" Graham Phantom Elite with the TechDas cartridge, all mounted on an Artesania Tandem Rack with the TT shelf. The phono cable is a crazy expensive Stealth.

I went with the TechDas instead of a Kronos for a lot of reasons. First I like how Japanese Audiophiles have embraced vinyl with a deep passion and long history; Koetsu, Ikeda, Jeff's continual references to Yazaki-san (http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/. Plus, I am a fanatic about cartridge set up and the suction feature just made sense. I can't imagine the stress on a cartridge while tracking a warped record. After spending hours dialing in Azimuth and then watching the arm contort sideways as it tries to follow a warped groove, its almost unbearable. And I'd bet many of our records have even minor amounts of warp that may not be all that apparent. The air bearing is another feature that is pure genius and again makes good sense. In fact it makes me wonder about the condition of the bearings in my VPI? Or any metal bearings for that matter......

Set up was really simple and all of the packaging of the TT, the arm, and the Artesania rack were exceptional. I also appreciated the detail and clarity of the owners manuals. TechDas in particular did a spectacular job in organizing the set up and operation manuals and the translation to English was impeccable. To me, these details are very reassuring in addition to smoothing out set up, which can be quite intimidating. I'd bet I'm not the only audiophile who cringes with a mixture of anxiety and eager anticipation when opening a TT or tonearm box, knowing that set up could be a Bear. TechDas and Graham made it a pleasure. Bob Graham has been terrific and totally available and accommodating for any help I've needed.

All of this is earmarked for a new system that is slowly coming together. My dedicated room is done but that's another story. For now the rest of the system I'm listening to includes a pair of Maggie 3.7i's, Carver Black Beauty amps, and a CAT Legend preamp with phono stage. Just with those components sort of thrown together, it sounds fantastic. I'll be upgrading to Vivid Spirits and Cat Amps soon. Even though I'm a vinyl guy, I also just ordered a new CD/Dac; the MBL N31. Once everything is here, Jim Smith is coming over to help dial it all in.

Anyway, I could not be more pleased with the AF3, tonearm, cartridge, phono cable, and the rack. They all seem to work perfectly together and the whole seems to be much greater than the sum the parts. I'll report back when the Spirits are in place and then again when the amps and the N31 arrive. One final thought. I'd like to give a shout out to my dealer George at Kyomi Audio. He has been fantastic to work with and really knows his stuff. Happy listening!

Ted,
Congrats! What a system! When are you expecting the speakers and the amps?

P.S. If I ever get down to the Porsche driving school in your neck of the woods, I may send you a PM and invite myself over. :)
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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For Ted and Jack,did you compare AF3 with AF2 and AF1?
The difference are big?

Hi Gian

Differences are not "big" but substantial. Mainly I would attribute the differences to the platters and motors used granted a good platform or table is a requirement as it is for any turntable. I was told upgrade options for platters of all tables are being worked on so all AF owners will have the luxury AF1 owners now enjoy.
 

tedtag

New Member
Jul 19, 2016
59
8
0
Georgia
Hi Ted. Congratulations on the new TT. Have you had a chance to compare AF3 to any other TT before buying it? I compared an AF3 to an AF2, and the difference was not subtle. So, I decided to wait and see if I can do more comparisons to other TT models like Kuzma Stabi M, TW Acoustic or maybe an Acoustic Signature model. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to arrange such a comparison as all these turntables are not in stock.

I did listen to a Basis 2800 with the Superarm 9 and Clearaudio Gold Statement cartridge, a Kronos with a ZYX Ultimate Universe, a Brinkmann (can't remember the model but top of their line), and the AF3 with a vandenhul cartridge. Obviously, its almost impossible to do direct head to head comparisons with everything else in the system the same, including the room! The AF3 just seemed to hit all my buttons and is a great example of trickle down technology. It probably comes up a little short next to the AF1 or AF2 but it sure sounds great, is really easy and fun to use, its meticulously built, and looks fantastic. I may add a couple of more arms which is a nice option to have.
 

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