What is it about the bass, that it becomes so robust with after-market cords and conditioners?

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ack

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Faster and less noisy impulse current delivery?
 

ddk

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Why does the bass become so pronounced with after-market power products?

Is that a statement? IME all audiophile power cords I tried color the sound beyond recognition. Boom with some Tizz is typical. Everything you listen to suddenly has extra bottom; coloration! Or they shave off the mids, had some hyper detail on type giving you the illusion that their one note bass is something special. Of course it depends on what you start off with :)!

david
 

treitz3

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Hello David and good afternoon to you. I understand what you are saying *but* wouldn't the additional current flow from proper connections (as in a PC) naturally produce deeper bass and not just extra bottom....or as you say, "coloration"?

Tom
 

Folsom

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There are certainly good and bad products. He's not just referring to power cords. I guess the other question is he referring to robust in a bad way or good way?

Although I have no idea what coloration has to do with an EQ like effect... I think that's an inappropriate description for the bass.
 

RogerD

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Why does the bass become so pronounced with after-market power products?
A good power cord should deliver power with less noise into the system circuit. This will improve the quality of the bass and overall system sound.
 

Folsom

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Hello David and good afternoon to you. I understand what you are saying *but* wouldn't the additional current flow from proper connections (as in a PC) naturally produce deeper bass and not just extra bottom....or as you say, "coloration"?

Tom

Proper? They weren't proper before? They were.

But there's a decent chance some whacky power cords will reduce current despite having much larger, and more wires. Those might "color" the sound in a manner of speaking. Generally they'll make the highs soft first and so on down the line do other things.
 

amirm

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Why does the bass become so pronounced with after-market power products?
Maybe because bass is what people think power cords improve. By paying attention to it they then hear its details that were always there but not captured in our memory/perception.
 

Folsom

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"Everyone is basically retarded" good addition Amir... that's such an old default. I find it hard to believe you actually believe it. You're not an actual engineer so you don't really have the investment that others with the position do; why get hung up on it?

Bass can have interesting change to less current response, or what I'd call loss of phase, due to feedback. Feedback can swing between overly punchy but flat to bulbous. Class D is usually the overly punchy but flat one; less than organic.
 

amirm

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Bass can have interesting change to less current response, or what I'd call loss of phase, due to feedback. Feedback can swing between overly punchy but flat to bulbous. Class D is usually the overly punchy but flat one; less than organic.
How do you know there is less current? Or is current one of those attributes that you think can't be measured?
 

amirm

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"Everyone is basically retarded" good addition Amir...
No, it is the opposite. Everyone is born with the same human abilities. You cannot override those no matter how great you think you are. What is retarded is to think that all the variables that go into your perception are under your control. They are not.

Think of driving to and from work. It being routine, not much enters into your memory. Now think of sightseeing using your car. This time you pay attention and commit a lot more to memory. This is called "elasticity."

Your hearing is elastic. When you swap something and then pay attention to what may have changed, you now have a totally different experience. The short term memory which is under 20 seconds, gets filtered differently and what gets stored in long term memory distinctly different. You can now hear details, air, more bass, etc. that you took for granted before.

This is how your brain and hearing system works. You cannot do anything about it but be aware of it and conduct experiments which guard against it.

We can objectively prove all of this by for example, playing the same thing twice and have you perceive better bass, detail in one of those rounds and not the other. You will swear that the two sounds are different if I did not tell you they are identical. Heck, even knowing they are identical you can "hear" differences.
 

ddk

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Hello David and good afternoon to you. I understand what you are saying *but* wouldn't the additional current flow from proper connections (as in a PC) naturally produce deeper bass and not just extra bottom....or as you say, "coloration"?

Tom

Hi Tom,

I've read the same claims you're talking about, power draw is a question of wire gauge and IME experience 14 gauge is more than enough for most amplifiers but of course you can buy smaller gauges if you want to. As far connections go you can't beat a well made industrially soldered corded with moulded plugs compared to hand tightened plugs,

plugs.jpg

Not only that, a softer moulded IEC with a light flexible cord attached can give you a nice snug fit, compare to a loose fitting hard plastic with some heavy unbending anaconda attached tugging away at both ends.

plug 3.jpg

david
 
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treitz3

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Wow, David. Our experiences can not differ further. I do appreciate your response though sir.

Tom
 

Folsom

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How do you know there is less current? Or is current one of those attributes that you think can't be measured?

Measuring current is possible. I've never, ever, seen someone do it in such a way that it was relevant to audio playback for phase. I don't know if the equipment is sensitive enough to make it worth it, either. It would probably require some fascinating software for high quality evaluation.

The best way to know if current isn't correct is to take steps to fix it. That's the real indicator that's useful for audio reproduction. After awhile you'll get a feel what and where. Wires for power are one of them.

For the laymen that isn't about to start changing things inside their equipment, some simple calls can be made. If you're operating with class A/AB then soften high frequencies should be an early indicator of a problem. Light bass can be, but frankly it's too hard to determine without making a change to perceive a difference. Soft sound in general is an indicator as well. But the fix? Well, that may only be reserved for those that can dive in and modify stuff, a lot. That or find stuff that lacks the problems - not an easy task since so much of it that seems to do well in that department fails in another.
 

ddk

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Wow, David. Our experiences can not differ further.

Tom

Exactly why we're here discussing & sharing Tom :)! But I'm unclear about which part is different, the hard plastic IEC fit or wire gauge?

david
 

ddk

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They have a different sound? Which one is the more neutral, less colored?

Gotta try them out Bob, in my case I found exactly what I wanted in some standard power cords and never been happy with audiophile power cords but I'm that way with cables too, specially the expensive ones many are designed to do things and they do just that which is what I don't like about them!

david
 

amirm

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Measuring current is possible. I've never, ever, seen someone do it in such a way that it was relevant to audio playback for phase. I don't know if the equipment is sensitive enough to make it worth it, either. It would probably require some fascinating software for high quality evaluation.
Aren't you an engineer? If so, why won't you use your engineering experience to measure and thereby, confirm your hypothesis?

Why are you so sure it is a current issue if you have not measured it anyway?

What resolution does it need to be and why?
 

Folsom

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Hi Tom,

I've read the same claims you're talking about, power draw is a question of wire gauge and IME experience 14 gauge is more than enough for most amplifiers but of course you can buy smaller gauges if you want to. As far connections go you can't beat a well made industrially soldered corded with moulded plugs compared to hand tightened plugs,

View attachment 31450

Not only that, a softer moulded IEC with a light flexible cord attached can give you a nice snug fit, compare to a loose fitting hard plastic with some heavy unbending anaconda attached tugging away at both ends.

View attachment 31452

david


You're not wrong about overall contact possibility. However however however... the average IEC cord has a very gentle spiral to it. That's why they're so flexible. This however also means that they have significantly less RF attenuation.

My preference thus far is for high quality copper, simple twisted cables. I'm not saying there are not better cables, just that they sound better than average 12ga for extension cords and sound plenty good enough for my uses in R&D.
 
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