Dcs

jasbirnandra

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Hello folks is it necessary to have a preamp in the chain if you are using a high quality dac with volume control like the DCS rossini or the vivaldi will this degrade the sound then having a dedicated pre
 

Keith_W

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You can't give a general answer to a question like this, because it is system dependent. The DCS from memory outputs up to 6V, which should be sufficient to drive most power amps directly. The other important variable is the output impedance of the DAC compared to the input impedance of your power amp. For me, overcomplicating the signal path by adding a preamp is something I would avoid. But if you have a hard-to-drive power amp, you may benefit from a preamp. Try it and see.
 

jfrech

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The dCS offerings output .2, .6, 2 and 6 volts to help match up with amps. Net net, dCS doesn't need a preamp, but you may want one. Going direct, you tend to get more transparency. Adding a very good preamp more weight on the notes and air/space/specificity of the image. You won't go wrong either way...
 

Elberoth

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It depends. 6V would too much for most amp / speaker combinations. You would end up with attenuation levels somehere between -20dB and -30dB. That is way too much. From my experience, if you do not exceed -10 to 12dB attenuation levels during normal listening, dCS stuff can sound better direct than via a preamp. That is unless you want to use the preamp as a tone control.

I was using dCS variable outputs for over 5 years. First with the Puccini and then with Scarlatti. I have tried many preamps through that time, including the $100.000 Kondo M-1000 mk 2, but I always ended up prefering the direct connection. Before I got the Puccini, I had the ARC CD-8 / Ref 3 combo. At first I just replaced the CDP and was using my Puccini with Ref 3 / Ref 110 combo, but then I realised, the Puccini direct to Ref 110 sounded much better, so I sold the Ref 3.

The problem is, in most systems, with medium sensitivity speakers (~87dB) and amps of avg. gain (~ 28dB), even in the 2V setting, you still too much gain in the system (read: you need lots of digital attenuatuion). I have solved this problem by getting msb M202 monos, which have selectable gain of 18dB or 24dB. In the low gain setting, I was able to stay in the range between 0dB and -10dB, which is about perfect.
 

asiufy

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My experience with dCS is the complete opposite. I always had a preamp handy, but still, from time to time, I'd hook up the dCS (first Puccini, then Paganini) directly to the amp. At first, it was exhilarating, the extra transparency and resolution had the "wow" factor... But after a day or two, I'd just put the preamp in and welcome a certain smoothness that is lost when going direct to the amp...

I'd have really long listening sessions, so I noticed that fatigue, for some reason, sets in much earlier going direct.
 

MadFloyd

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It depends. 6V would too much for most amp / speaker combinations. You would end up with attenuation levels somehere between -20dB and -30dB. That is way too much. From my experience, if you do not exceed -10 to 12dB attenuation levels during normal listening, dCS stuff can sound better direct than via a preamp. That is unless you want to use the preamp as a tone control.

I was using dCS variable outputs for over 5 years. First with the Puccini and then with Scarlatti. I have tried many preamps through that time, including the $100.000 Kondo M-1000 mk 2, but I always ended up prefering the direct connection. Before I got the Puccini, I had the ARC CD-8 / Ref 3 combo. At first I just replaced the CDP and was using my Puccini with Ref 3 / Ref 110 combo, but then I realised, the Puccini direct to Ref 110 sounded much better, so I sold the Ref 3.

The problem is, in most systems, with medium sensitivity speakers (~87dB) and amps of avg. gain (~ 28dB), even in the 2V setting, you still too much gain in the system (read: you need lots of digital attenuatuion). I have solved this problem by getting msb M202 monos, which have selectable gain of 18dB or 24dB. In the low gain setting, I was able to stay in the range between 0dB and -10dB, which is about perfect.

When I run my dCS direct at 2v, my volume is often between -5 & 0db. I need the 6v. dCS recommends that the volume be between -10 and -30.
 

Eichenbaum

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Sep 29, 2013
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My experience with dCS is the complete opposite. I always had a preamp handy, but still, from time to time, I'd hook up the dCS (first Puccini, then Paganini) directly to the amp. At first, it was exhilarating, the extra transparency and resolution had the "wow" factor... But after a day or two, I'd just put the preamp in and welcome a certain smoothness that is lost when going direct to the amp...

I'd have really long listening sessions, so I noticed that fatigue, for some reason, sets in much earlier going direct.

+1
 

microstrip

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Hello folks is it necessary to have a preamp in the chain if you are using a high quality dac with volume control like the DCS rossini or the vivaldi will this degrade the sound then having a dedicated pre

Technically the Vivaldi dac does not need a preamplifier - the output level is switchable in 5 discrete values between the .2 and 6V, the output impedance is around 3 ohm balanced, 51 ohm SE.

However in my system using an Audio Research tube amplifier I prefer the sound with a REF 40 preamplifier. However I can easily imagine that other users possibly can find an amplifier and system that sounds better without the preamplifier. There is an impressive immediacy and freshness when using without preamplifier, but it is less involving IMHO.
 

microstrip

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When I run my dCS direct at 2v, my volume is often between -5 & 0db. I need the 6v. dCS recommends that the volume be between -10 and -30.

As far as I understand this is a practical, but compromised solution. It is intended to keep an extra 10 dB gain for low level recordings or for that rare moments we need high level to impress friends ... When I tried it without preamplifier I always played it between -10 or 0, otherwise I changed the output level. The variation between fixed levels is around 10 dB.
 

Cincy2

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I have used my dCS equipment without a pre amp for several years now. My current speakers are very efficient and with a 2V Vivaldi DAC output I have no problem keeping the attenuation in the sweet spot.

Cincy
 

MadFloyd

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How did they not get this right?
 

Cincy2

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Everyone is entitled to an opinion. For me, I took a very good Halcro pre amp out of my system several years ago and have never looked back. I believe they very much did get it right.

Cincy
 

microstrip

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Use a pre-amp. dCS just didn't quite get this right.

The other perspective is that the amplifier guys did not get their amplifiers right for direct connection ...

The preamplifier is just an extra stage that could easily be fitted in the power amplifier.
 

Kingsrule

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Personal and rude commentary removed. Please do not ever speak in this manner to one of our members. We are better than this.
 
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