Low-cost streamer compares to Aurender

audioguy

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I currently have a dedicated PC server and while the audio is excellent (as is the interface), the heat generated is not. It sits in my equipment room and can really overheat the room. So I have ordered the Blue Sound Vault 2, which is the equivalent of the Node plus 2TB of storage. (It comes with a 30 day trial period). It gets me the streaming product I am interested in (for Tidal) and provides a vehicle for possibly eliminating my PC with its storage ability. I will load a few CD's onto it that I have on my server and be able to directly compare the two products sonically.

I know one downside of it already. It takes about 5 minutes to load a CD onto my server and 15 (according to what I have read) to load onto the Vault 2. It apparently keeps reading until it gets a "perfect" copy. My server uses another approach to do the same thing. It does have the ability to upload my existing library onto its hard drive as well as attach to an external Networked drive (and, of course, do backups of what it contains). I use JRemote to control my existing server and I am guessing that the Vault 2 has its own proprietary interface. I am also guessing that I won't like it as well. I will be going digital in to my preamp (Datasat) so won't be using an external DAC.

Assuming the sound quality is acceptable, I will evaluate if I even need the storage ability. I have been told that Tidal is a very complete service so to the extent their library matches mine, I may or may not need the storage. This should be fun!!

EDIT: In order to evaluate how good or not so good this product is (taking advantage of the 30 day trial period), a friend of mine has agreed to assist in a blind test. This product vs a dedicated server that we both know sounds even better than the dCS transport in the same system (also determined in a blind test). I readily admit that I have expectation bias and the only way to eliminate that variable is via blind test. In this case, the expectations run on both sides of the fence: The server costs more, has known sub-products doing the ripping, known sub-products doing the playing, and it beats the best. On the other side, the new product meets some important criteria: newer technology; smaller footprint; generates less heat; "cooler looking"; multipurpose (streaming and music server); specifically designed for this purpose.

The system we will use is comprised of all dCS digital front end; Magico Q5 Speakers assisted by Rel subs and all Spectral electronics. The dCS has multiple SP/DIF inputs into which we all plug the server and the Bluesound Vault 2. The two products will feed the dCS DAC --- which feeds the Spectral preamp. All of the equipment is in a separate room located behind the purpose built dedicated listening room. This system is more revealing than mine and, because of the dCS products, instant (and blind) switching between the two products will be easily accomplished.

Both he and I will participate as listeners. We will compare the PC based server to the Bluesound acting as a server and the PC based server to the Bluesound as a streaming product, all, of course, with identical music being compared. Should be fun.
 
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rblnr

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Curious what you find, let us know.

And agreed on this statement re perceived differences between some products:

The same applies to whole host of other audio products as well.
 

audioguy

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I am unconvinced that high-priced streamers outperform well-engineered lower priced ones such as the Bluesound.

Careful. You will lose your "audiophile" card ;) (While I have yet to do any comparisons, I would agree with your above quote). If my friend returns this week, we will finally get to compare the Bluesound to his/my regular music server vs Tidal streaming.
 

rblnr

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Careful. You will lose your "audiophile" card ;) (While I have yet to do any comparisons, I would agree with your above quote). If my friend returns this week, we will finally get to compare the Bluesound to his/my regular music server vs Tidal streaming.

I'll survive somehow re: the card :)

Never liked kool aid, but do like to base my opinions, strong ones anyway, on direct A/B comparison. Definitely interested in what you find from your comparison.
 

plissken

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Feb 24, 2017
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I currently have a dedicated PC server and while the audio is excellent (as is the interface), the heat generated is not. It sits in my equipment room and can really overheat the room. So I have ordered the Blue Sound Vault 2, which is the equivalent of the Node plus 2TB of storage. (It comes with a 30 day trial period). It gets me the streaming product I am interested in (for Tidal) and provides a vehicle for possibly eliminating my PC with its storage ability. I will load a few CD's onto it that I have on my server and be able to directly compare the two products sonically.

I know one downside of it already. It takes about 5 minutes to load a CD onto my server and 15 (according to what I have read) to load onto the Vault 2. It apparently keeps reading until it gets a "perfect" copy. My server uses another approach to do the same thing. It does have the ability to upload my existing library onto its hard drive as well as attach to an external Networked drive (and, of course, do backups of what it contains). I use JRemote to control my existing server and I am guessing that the Vault 2 has its own proprietary interface. I am also guessing that I won't like it as well. I will be going digital in to my preamp (Datasat) so won't be using an external DAC.

Assuming the sound quality is acceptable, I will evaluate if I even need the storage ability. I have been told that Tidal is a very complete service so to the extent their library matches mine, I may or may not need the storage. This should be fun!!

EDIT: In order to evaluate how good or not so good this product is (taking advantage of the 30 day trial period), a friend of mine has agreed to assist in a blind test. This product vs a dedicated server that we both know sounds even better than the dCS transport in the same system (also determined in a blind test). I readily admit that I have expectation bias and the only way to eliminate that variable is via blind test. In this case, the expectations run on both sides of the fence: The server costs more, has known sub-products doing the ripping, known sub-products doing the playing, and it beats the best. On the other side, the new product meets some important criteria: newer technology; smaller footprint; generates less heat; "cooler looking"; multipurpose (streaming and music server); specifically designed for this purpose.

The system we will use is comprised of all dCS digital front end; Magico Q5 Speakers assisted by Rel subs and all Spectral electronics. The dCS has multiple SP/DIF inputs into which we all plug the server and the Bluesound Vault 2. The two products will feed the dCS DAC --- which feeds the Spectral preamp. All of the equipment is in a separate room located behind the purpose built dedicated listening room. This system is more revealing than mine and, because of the dCS products, instant (and blind) switching between the two products will be easily accomplished.

Both he and I will participate as listeners. We will compare the PC based server to the Bluesound acting as a server and the PC based server to the Bluesound as a streaming product, all, of course, with identical music being compared. Should be fun.

What procedure are you using to make sure your output levels are the same?

I just did a tear down of a $169 BeeLink Windows 10 Celeron 3450 MiniPC with 4GB / 64GB EMMC and M.2 expansion. It also has wireless and GBe. All USB 3.0.

I removed the cheap thermal pad, added a 1.2 mm copper ship and added artic silver. It's fanless and runs with a 12VDC 1.5 amp (so 18 watts max). I ran Prime 95 on it for 24 hours and it was warm. Under normal use it's barely warm. Can do 24/129, DSD without breaking a sweat.

You can also do the 3455 based Intel NUC for $129 and just add a 2.5" drive and 204 pin DDR3L RAM.

It eats through CD rips with EAC really quick. My 12TB NAS is at the other end of the house.
 

audioguy

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We completed our comparisons of the Bluesound vs. our existing server and a stored disc on the Bluesound vs. Tidal streaming the same disc via the Bluesound. And unlike other blind comparisons I have done, I was not bothered by expectation bias. I "expected" the Bluesound to win due to it having less “stuff” in the box (less complex) and being 6 years newer. On the other hand, I "expected" the server to win because it cost $4500 and was custom built for this specific purpose and the Bluesound cost $1200.

So that you know my biases, I refuse to spend hours and hours looking for microscopic differences between components. If I have to work that hard to hear differences, they are not significant to me, but that does not suggest they might not exist. Furthermore, even if I might easily hear a very subtle difference, if I do not deem it musically significant, it does not get much weight. We did the best we could be get the exact same volume, but to insure we would compensate for any difference, we purposely played each at a higher level than the other.

We first plugged both the Bluesound and the existing server into the dCS DAC. We then selected music that was on both and while one person was in the equipment room selecting the source, the other listened. Results: we could never consistently tell which source we were listening to.

Next up, we switched between a Tidal (FLAC) version of an album and the same album stored on the Bluesound server. Same results. In this case, we thought more than once that we favored the server version (when we knew which source we were listening to), but blind, the difference disappeared. All of that notwithstanding, Tidal is an awesome way to listen to new music, and at least for me, more than accurate enough to do serious listening.

I know most on this forum are not blind test believers for various reasons. I, on the other hand, refuse to make a decision without blind testing. If you have not tried it, I highly recommend you give it a go.

Summary: In my opinion, the key (if any) differences between music streamers seem to be a function of the DAC. Was this the perfect blind test? Double blind? NO but more than good enough to make sure we didn't know what we were listening to.

As usual, YMMV.
 

rblnr

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Thanks for posting your results Chuck. My findings in A/B comparison have been the same and we are entirely like-minded on this notion:

refuse to spend hours and hours looking for microscopic differences between components. If I have to work that hard to hear differences, they are not significant to me

If I can’t hear the difference pretty close to immediately or have to spend a lot of time listening for a difference, it’s not worth the $$$.

Well put and well done.
 

randyhat

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Sep 28, 2017
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"I am unconvinced that high-priced streamers outperform well-engineered lower priced ones such as the Bluesound."

Interesting. I am wondering the same thing. I bought a Bluesound Node 2 a few months ago just to tryout streaming. My expectations for sound quality was not that high but if I found and liked the concept of streaming I would rip my CD collection and use the Bluesound for "less critical" listening situations. Not only do I enjoy streaming, I am extremely impressed with the sound quality of the Bluesound. It sounds so good to my ears that am very curious to compare it to a better (more expensive) streamer just to see how much better it can get. I have a dealer who has recommended either a Lumin A1 or T1. I am hoping he will let me try it out at home for a few days. But to be honest I think would have to sound significantly better than the Bluesound before I would spend the money. Anyone else have experience comparing the Node 2 to more expensive setups?
 

the sound of Tao

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View attachment 34803 I have spent the last 6 months or so looking for a way forward with this and have now had the Sotm SMS-200 Ultra (12v) sweetly settling in for the last couple of weeks set up running off a Kingrex linear PSU that I had spare.

Wow, sensational, so completely impressed with this, so unprocessed and engaging and effortless, just might even get the partnering TxUltra to run with it as well though I really have to say that I find the sound I have with it already hard to fault just as it is.

Certainly putting it up on good isolation made the world of difference and I am now a confirmed believer in clock sensitivity to vibration. In fact I'll probably get another one for the other system as this is proving just such brilliantly affordable hi end music making. Loving this little beastie.
Update on the Sotm SMS-200 Ultra. It's probably about 350hrs up on it and it's stepped up and really turned a corner.

I'll try and be measured and avoid being caught up in hyperbole but it is hard not to be impressed. This is now comfortably both sonically and musically by a good degree more capable than anything else I have heard as a digital front end.

Disclaimer I haven't heard the SGM and the best transport I have experienced was the Aqua La Diva that I had here for a few months.

There is still probably more potential to optimise further but this is as it is completely engaging and I really am no longer searching for a digital pathway. This is perfectly captivating music making and I won't be wasting any more time searching for anything more really. This is completely good.
 

spiritofmusic

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Tao, I'd really really like to consider SOtM.
But your reports on its finickityness and my lack of experience/poor skills w computer audio make this a bad match.
I'd like to keep my options open however, so exactly what units of SOtM are you using, the website is pretty baffling?
 

wisnon

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All I can say is that power matters the most in transports and separated power supplies to subsystems is the way to go.
 

the sound of Tao

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Marc, I figure you need the pathway with the greatest peace of mind which would clearly more likely be a turn key solution with more of a plug and play unit that comes with some dealer support.

Maybe Antipodes new stripped back to go for the low noise and also souped up for processing Core server sounds like a possible solution to add to the list to check out. There is a review here...

Antipodes Core

It is Roon ready and configured with a sufficient processor that allows for upsampling via Roon.

You can get it with up to 4 TB of SSD internal storage so you won't have to configure a NAS. It's price is not so crazy (don't know retail UK but the tested version above was about $5k USD) but sufficiently priced so that you might expect some reasonable support from the dealer.

According to Antipodes you can run this purely as an all in one straight out server to simply feed direct into your dac or... if you want to go for broke later on you can still add a renderer like the SOTM sMS-200 Ultra in the path after the Core and before the Dac to then get that last iota uptick of a purist renderer and push those sonic boundaries even further.

Many of us start in computer audio with a technically less demanding option and that is a good approach. This seems to be one.

I figure demo a Core with internal storage and download all your music to it plus sign on to Tidal and just get yourself completely comfortable with operating it and also enjoying streaming.

Gear like the SOTM are relatively cheap upgrade additions for later on when the inevitable urge to go one stage further and find out if you are missing out on that last iota of musical satisfaction. Just don't tackle it all in one go... take it easy and do it in stages.

The Roon experience is really among the best parts of taking the computer streaming pathway anyway and absolutely worth making the effort... this server seems well set up for it. Please note I haven't heard the CORE but I am suggesting that you get a demo first and see if it works for you. Hope this helps

cheers
Tao
 
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spiritofmusic

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Tao, all things being equal, SOtM would be on my list, and Antipodes too.
However, dealer back up in the UK is not as good as alternatives like Auralic or Innuos, so I'll take a lot more convincing.
If I can find a contact that can hold my hand on SOtM or Antipodes, I'll give them serious consideration.
 

bonzo75

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Try item audio
 

the sound of Tao

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Marc agree 100% and I am specifically not suggesting Sotm as the best next move for you... definitely go the UK supported gear for all the vary sane reasons outlined earlier... make the journey a good one but also be wary of making it a too anxious one. It's easy to do and get lost in the idea of something and as always think-too-much syndrome is an audiophile symptom that many of us tend to share I figure. Go in peace and not in pieces I say. Have fun with it all.
 

spiritofmusic

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Ked, have you tried to use the Item Audio website? Doesn't inspire confidence.
There are a couple of dealers near me who cover Innuos, these are my best bets as far as I can see.
 

spiritofmusic

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Tao, agree 100%. My good buddy Blue58 is worrying I'm thinking this one too much.
He's probably right.
I do like what I'm learning about Innuos, and with good dealers near me in a couple of places, it's the logical choice if I don't go Auralic Aries.
Zenith or Zenith SE seem like choices that can't go wrong, and a lot of upside.
 

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