Have you heard the one about audiophiles?...

spiritofmusic said:

Who meet in a bar. They're all individuals w strong opinions, and love to argue all things audio. Over the course of an evening, many pertinent opinions are proffered, disagreements brought up.
But then critically, friendliness normally returns, everyone kinda agrees to disagree, and no bad karma dominates
This is kind of where we were prior to social media prevail, back when give and take were the norm, and tempers weren't instantly inflamed, and egos weren't immediately bruised
And critically the moods and flow of real time proper conversation, and personal barriers, we're all respected

Fast forward to the height of social media dominance and arguments on WBF dominate
Now we have the same guys who meet in the WBF Virtual Bar
One in effect leaves a contentious comment in all innocence, goes to the bar to order the drinks (ie leaves a barbed comment and goes offline), sets off an argument, the first guy returns w the drinks and takes offence (ie comes back online and is personally offended by reply). This second guy now goes off for a smoke (ie goes offline again), and again returns to bear the brunt of even more vitriol
Etc etc etc ad infinitum
And not even the advantage of an evening's pleasant boozing, just migraine headache from shouting at the computer

I've wanted to post a similar thread for a while, and reading the heartsink MasterBuilt cables thread and the sheer vitriol unleashed has pushed me to hit the New Thread button

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Great post. This "new" social media/internet communication has done way more damage than turning what used to be lively discussion into full blown name calling. Personal communication, as we used to know it, is quickly evaporating. Walk into any restaurant and look around. At any table, a good number of if not all at the table are NOT talking to one another - they are glued to their cell phones. Heck, we don't even talk to each other on the phone .... now we text.

The more impersonal the communication method, the less restraint is used. Way before the internet, on corporate in-house on line communication systems, I used to type everything in all caps, to speed things up. I was told I was "e-yelling" and needed to stop. It has only gone down hill from there.

There are so many cable threads started none really different from any other. It's a real friggin' mystery to me why the MB one in particular has taken on the proportions of Manchester United and Liverpool!

The medium really lends itself to gross misunderstanding. No facial expressions, no intonations, no body language. So much lost in translation.

JackD201 said:

The medium really lends itself to gross misunderstanding. No facial expressions, no intonations, no body language. So much lost in translation.

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The internet can lead to misunderstanding but it can also lead to vile behaviour under the cloak of anonymity.
There was no misunderstanding some of the comments in that thread.

People who meet up at the bar are more.similar than most and can relate to each other's experiences better. Most people I have sat down and listened with we have agreed, though preferences might be different.

Internet brings together people with various backgrounds, styles, experiences and culture and sometimes one can't relate to the other. Had Bill and I or Marc and blue58 been discussing the MB differences we would have got each other. I guess same for Al and Peter. But when people with varying mindsets and experiences try to communicate that communication fails. The way Steve and MB users communicate his listening experience (and the way I do) is different to the way Ack gets it. It's like trying to watch a cricket match in a bar with an American, likely won't work. But in a bar that incident is highly unlikely, while on the net it is regular

Lots of people deliver zingers on the board, yourself included. You've been embroiled in your own PC thread. Mark's OP may have been triggered by the MB thread but lets not fool ourselves that that is the only place these things go on in. My point is that it is the nature of the beast. There are only two choices, one should either be careful or not friggin' care.

I personally try to be careful but at the same time I wholeheartedly believe that those that choose not to should be able to take what they dish out. There are no children here.

Hello gents,

You’re not wrong.

But I think there are two things that for me, need to be considered when discussing the virtue of forum-related communication.

1) A forum is, by its very nature, an aggregator for opinions. That’s kinda its function. And when the forum in question deals with subjectivized experiences in which objective data is a related but not necessarily essential part of the experience, it’s really a given that those opinions will tend to be skewed and inherent biases heightened. What’s more, we’re dealing with language, and language apropos a perceptual phenomenon will inevitably fail to convey the literal meaning because most often we’re dealing with conceptual ideas. So it’s therefore more likely I may say something that expresses what I think I mean but fails to convey it to the other. Hence, the circular nature of many of the discussions we involve ourselves in. Me? I happen to really enjoy discussing this stuff, but I accept that many will either A) not agree with what I say, and/or; B) not agree with how I have said it. C’est la vie.

2) An a**hole is an a**hole. Apologies for the language, but people who are rude, arrogant, dismissive, superior, denigrating, aggressive, bullies or abusive exist in every walk of life, and they existed long before the invention of social media. Many of them have made it to high-ranking positions of power not limited to Fortune 500 companies, military regimes, political parties, religious organisations, sports franchisees and social networks. And although I accept that some will be unable or unwilling to develop the self-awareness of the damage their attitude and behaviour wreaks on others, I personally believe that a virtual way of communicating does not obviate anyone from taking responsibility for their conduct just because the participants are largely anonymous. It doesn’t even come down to whether one would say it another to their face - arrogance and abusive behaviour should be called out for what it is, irrespective of the position of power/status the person occupies or the personal/profession experience they possess, and irrespective of whether they’re discussing global political ideologies or interconnects and speaker cables. Me? I’m not interested in telling anyone else what to think or do. But neither will I pretend that someone being arrogant and abusive toward others or myself should be tolerated just because the nature of the communication is virtual. For whatever that may be worth.

not been in a bar in 40 years, unless I'm waiting for my table to open at a business dinner. and honestly I don't hang with audio hobby objectivists (they are not typically in the same places I am)......unless someone brings Amir to my room.

OTOH I'm the same guy person to person or behind a keyboard. I can get a little worked up, but if I cross the line I quickly apologize. which is how I am. and when I'm worked up, I delete most of the posts I write before I hit send (or right after.....it does sometimes help to write it out and see how stupid it looks), sorta like not saying the first stupid thing that enters your mind in person. it's called acting like an adult.

mostly this issue has to do with agenda focused objectivists descending on a listening thread. to a lesser degree it's about a thread started with conflict anticipated......which I pretty much avoid since I'm not going to change any objectivists mind, and they are not changing mine. so why bother? I'd rather do something important, like removing the rocks from my tire treads.

Mike Lavigne said:

not been in a bar in 40 years, unless I'm waiting for my table to open at a business dinner. and honestly I don't hang with audio hobby objectivists......unless someone brings Amir to my room.

OTOH I'm the same guy person to person or behind a keyboard. I can get a little worked up, but if I cross the line I quickly apologize. which is how I am. and when I'm worked up, I delete most of the posts I write before I hit send, sorta like not saying the first stupid thing that enters your mind in person. it's called acting like an adult.

mostly this issue has to do with agenda focused objectivists descending on a listening thread. to a lesser degree it's about a thread started with conflict anticipated......which I pretty much avoid since I'm not going to change any objectivists mind, and they are not changing mine. so why bother? I'd rather do something important, like removing the rocks from my tire treads.

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With respect, you not only endorsed the "herpes" comment but took it even further.

Mike Lavigne said:

that pretty much says it all.

although maybe that's not being fair to herpes.

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I'm not sure I understand how that squares with what you've written here

Whatmore said:

With respect, you not only endorsed the "herpes" comment but took it even further.



I'm not sure I understand how that squares with what you've written here

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I had written and deleted at least 5 posts saying essentially the same thing that day, that it was crazy to even respond to the objectivists on that thread......that it was just prolonging the problem as they would continue to push the issue as long as they had responses. and I stand by my post as appropriate and not over the line. my target was prolonging the agony.

and I would have said that same thing face to face.....with a smile and wink.

look at my 'more recent' previous posts in that thread, they were all about getting MB to not 'take the bait'....and move on.

Mike Lavigne said:

I had written and deleted at least 5 posts saying essentially the same thing that day, that it was crazy to even respond to the objectivists on that thread......that it was just prolonging the problem as they would continue to push the issue as long as they had responses. and I stand by my post as appropriate and not over the line. my target was prolonging the agony.

look at my 'more recent' previous posts in that thread, they were all about getting MB to not 'take the bait'.

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Wow, just wow

Mike Lavigne said:

not been in a bar in 40 years, unless I'm waiting for my table to open at a business dinner. and honestly I don't hang with audio hobby objectivists (they are not typically in the same places I am)......unless someone brings Amir to my room.

OTOH I'm the same guy person to person or behind a keyboard. I can get a little worked up, but if I cross the line I quickly apologize. which is how I am. and when I'm worked up, I delete most of the posts I write before I hit send (or right after.....it does sometimes help to write it out and see how stupid it looks), sorta like not saying the first stupid thing that enters your mind in person. it's called acting like an adult.

mostly this issue has to do with agenda focused objectivists descending on a listening thread. to a lesser degree it's about a thread started with conflict anticipated......which I pretty much avoid since I'm not going to change any objectivists mind, and they are not changing mine. so why bother? I'd rather do something important, like removing the rocks from my tire treads.

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I am an objectivist and "hang" with subjectivists all the time. We always have nice amicable discussions, even if we don't agree. Too much tribalism in this hobby and life in general. I do my best to avoid it and mingle with all stripes. As for boards like this one, I won't post anything that I wouldn't say to someone face to face. I don't believe in hiding behind anonymous board names and always use my real name. As for cricket, as an American, I just don't understand what is going on. I will be visiting a cricket ground in Melbourne soon, it part to try to get a handle on the game.

How about a one day match? I will be in London in March but will be seeing football. Maybe in the summer.