Should I stay, or should I go?

amirm · Feb 13, 2017

You have to decide if something sounding better is more important to you than hearing new music. If all you want to do is listen to your 2000 albums, then by all means stay with LP. But if you want to listen to the other million albums out there, instantly be able to listen to whatever clip/album someone mentions, be able to skip to the next track or album that better fit your needs, then streaming/server based digital has no competition. Decide if you love the sound or music.

Of course I prefer digital to LP in sound department too so for me the decision is a done deal. But I appreciate others being different.

spiritofmusic · Feb 13, 2017

Guys, thanks for such interesting input
We're all coming from many different directions, intersecting and converging at many points
Apart from the early dog days of digital, I've always found cdp's which manage to outperform some aspects of analog
A good example was the Linn LP12, it stomped over all the so called early audiophile players like the Meridian 208 do mercilessly, it wasn't even a joke
Then the Marantz CD12/DA12 SE came along, and for the first time I could endure and then really like digital
To'ing and fro'ing thru the 90s, 00's and 10's and tit for tat btwn analog and digital has given us the best of both worlds
I guess what maybe I'm really saying is that where analog impvts used to put digital kind of in it's place, my experience w what I'd call a SOTA streamer is putting the boot on the other foot, for maybe the first time
I really cannot believe the jump twds a more analog centric sound the SGM enables
This truly is the first time I've been reluctant to put serious cash into analog, knowing the vast strides digital has made w the SGM
Caveat w all this is I don't love my analog any less
My tt/arm IS at the cheaper, less perfectionist end of the spectrum, but it truly outperforms, and hence the argument is really whether the expenditure on a really superlative for the price analog rig (my dealer runs the AMG Viella V12 w Straingauge cart) would reinstate the quality gap to eg the SGM/good dac for same outlay, or whether this itch Ive developed for maxxing digital needs scratching as more of a priority

spiritofmusic · Feb 13, 2017

Keith, my thought on shunning vinyl for a few years is part jest, but also part v serious
I would really love to know if what I/we love about vinyl is in any way an affectation or archtype in the analog presentation I would be averse to on returning after a long period

es347 · Feb 13, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
if, right now, you can only go 'all-in' on one or the other, then I would choose digital.

chasing vinyl bliss can get crazy expensive, whereas digital is quite a bit more sane (with multiple ways to go that play to various tastes) and the delivery processes now are wonderful.

..agree 100%...not that I don't enjoy vinyl but by far the majority of my listening is digital...go for it

thedudeabides · Feb 13, 2017

KeithR said:
either way you decide, not listening to analog for 2-3 years seems silly.

Not to me. His choice.

From my side of the fence, all posts that provide reasons why digital is a better choice are spot on.

In the end, it's all personal preference.

PS: My recent foray into Shunyata Research power cords has significantly changed my feelings regarding the quality of digital playback.

microstrip · Feb 13, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
(...) So preamble over, now the point of this thread
I may very well consider a major tt/arm upgrade to give me the transparency and delicacy my current analog is marginally missing
(...)

IMHO the key to your problems is buried somewhere in this sentence. It looks strange - why do you need a major upgrade for something only "marginally" missing?

Again IMHO - and yes, I know many people disagree on this aspect, the choice of the source preferred format will dictate your whole system. The choice is even due to the music we prefer - if one listens mostly to older recordings, that mostly sound great on vinyl, and were hastily and poorly transferred to digital why going in digital?

Otherwise, for newcomers, not your case, why going in vinyl if you will be listening to mainly digital LPs?

spiritofmusic · Feb 13, 2017

Micro, good point
On these forums, we're either guilty of hyperbole (on Ron's watch LOL) or gross understatement
My new room is a triumph for my cdp esp, w it's positives really enhanced
My analog has just taken a LOT more effort, and maybe isn't shining quite as much
And where it's failing is where my digital is esp good atm, re tone and transparency
Hence my being much more open to switching allegiances

bonzo75 · Feb 13, 2017

Marc, you are going to finally make your own decision irrespective of what everyone says. So just one thing...If you see going digital, get out of analog completely. Be the streaming guy, and if you don't get the same tone on vinyl, you should be convinced you won't give a rat's a**, because now you have more music at your fingertips and more convenience.

Which is the reason I also won't get an expensive server, because I am not deluded it will make it analog...I will get myself the functionality of tidal via auralic Aries or aurender n100 or something even better and cheaper next year. At 15k I can set up a fantastic analog rig and get someone to dial it in.

Rhapsody · Feb 13, 2017

Jumping in on page 3

.....I agree with Armin's comments above about the positive aspects of digital, all of those attributes on a daily basis are a wonderful way to live and enjoy music, IF it fits your personality and preferences.

I was thinking as I was reading the last 3 pages and as much as I LOVE listening to Tidal streaming on a daily basis which include several hours of serious listening every evening, I could never not have a great TT setup or R2R deck. For me, it's like having a 12 cylinder car, do you need it- no, is it psychologically comforting to know it's there, even if you don't use it very often, for me it's a big yes. Same for a TT or tape. again just for me.

For me the answer is to have great digital, great vinyl and great tape, then forget about all of that and just enjoy the music.

Rodney Gold · Feb 13, 2017

Have you got some pics of your new room?
What extra do you need to get your digital better ?
Maybe you dont have to spend much on it and thus the switch is less traumatic?

Mike Lavigne · Feb 13, 2017

rvisinta said:
Jumping in on page 3.....I agree with Armin's comments above about the positive aspects of digital, all of those attributes on a daily basis are a wonderful way to live and enjoy music, IF it fits you and your personality and preferences.

I was thinking as I was reading the last 3 pages and as much as I LOVE listening to Tidal streaming on a daily basis which include several hours of serious listening every evening, I could never not have a great TT setup or R2R deck. For me, it's like having a 12 cylinder car, do you need it- no, is it psychologically comforting to know it's there, even if you don't use it very often, for me it's a big yes. Same for a TT or tape. again just for me.

For me the answer is to have great digital, great vinyl and great tape, then forget about all of that and just enjoy the music.

+1.

I might get on a digital binge for weeks and weeks if that is what my focus is on. but it's like my 'lifeblood' is my tt and RTR deck and analog media. it has to be there when I need it. it touches a place nothing else can....and it's aura is ever-present in my listening mind.

the whole idea is to get digital to be good enough to push analog out of my conscious mind, but not replace it.

Rhapsody · Feb 13, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
+1.

I might get on a digital binge for weeks and weeks if that is what my focus is on. but it's like my 'lifeblood' is my tt and RTR deck and analog media. it has to be there when I need it. it touches a place nothing else can....and it's aura is ever-present in my listening mind.

Great way to describe it Mike!

Al M. · Feb 13, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
My analog has just taken a LOT more effort, and maybe isn't shining quite as much
And where it's failing is where my digital is esp good atm, re tone and transparency

Spirit,

consider me confused. If I understand correctly, you say that your digital is especially good at tone and transparency. But then you rave about tonal density of analog. So which is it? Which is better in tone?

By the way, while analog sometimes can have advantages in tonal density, the perception of it can simply depend on slight changes in tonal balance. Make your digital sound just a slight bit darker (e.g. strategically placing a carpet), and it may sound more tonally dense. So we have to be really careful here. Or perhaps make your analog sound a bit brighter, and it may sound more 'transparent'.

Just lately I have once more had emphatic experiences of how my ears can fool me, with music sounding different even depending on the time of day. And often this has to do with slight changes in perceived tonal balance. Which decide if at the moment I find the reproduction to have more "tonal density" or to be more "transparent".

***

[Conicidentally, when recently visiting an audio friend of mine who also collects old Hi-Fi magazines, I saw one from 1967, which stated on the cover: "the worst hi-fi component". Looking inside for the answer: "the human ear". Bingo. Even though it may be exaggerated, there definitely is something to it. It talked about how our perception may differ depending on time of day, mood, fatigue etc. To be honest, I think our eyes are more consistent in their perception.]

andromedaaudio · Feb 13, 2017

Dont know how big / " full range " you re speakers are spiritofmusic ?? , but since i use big full range speakers , digital became much more listenable

spiritofmusic · Feb 13, 2017

This thread is up there in terms of fantastic responses as my "should I get into tape?" one from a year or so back
Thanks guys, yr responses one and all are so useful and enlightening
Re any confusion or ambiguity in my comments
Analog IMHO remains king at tone, tonal density, tonal discrimination, heft and sheer exhuberant energy
This was amply demonstrated when after a session at Audiophile Bill's covering SGM w GG and Dac8, we put Nirvana on his trusty Kuzma tt, and the tidal wave of analog substance just reinstated Lp as top dog by quite a margin
However, for the first time I was aware of real advantages the digital had that day, and at Blue58's w his SGM of the kind of anslog flow and transparency I only ever used to hear from Lp playback
Even though nothing about the SGM at either place would "fool" you that you were listening to analog, the digital seemed to run in parallel and converge w good analog

Now, my tt is admittedly nowhere near as refined as top rigs
But it's rim drive, magnetic isolated platter/feet, linear tracking air arm, gives it an accuracy and gravitas I don't hear in many other decks (no need to upset people by dissing their fave decks)
Otoh, it just doesn't do delicacy and transparency as well as these decks either
It's a little like a mix of Garrard 301 and Linn LP12, v direct, v tuneful, but lacking in many smaller cues
Ironically my room is so neutral that it's almost enhanced a drier sound, that my tt is a tad more digital like, just not as see thru as my EERA cdp
So, this could be just a case I need to get a tt w more subtlety and transparency to reinstate the superiority of vinyl over digital
Or maybe w the strides that SGM brings to the party, the tally of impvts that top digital provides has psychologically swung my tendency to prefer twds digital for the first time
Or maybe I'm trying to really say something completely different?

andromedaaudio · Feb 13, 2017

Big advantage of tape is the predictability of the reproduced outcome and ease of use , getting enough software is another problem .
TT s demand a lot more care and $$ for a good result, i see myself adding another tapemachine but i dont think i ll go into TT again , although i have a lot of LP s which is kind of a shame, well may be an older design then garrard/ thorens/emt.

bonzo75 · Feb 13, 2017

That digital like thing is probably due to not having an active phone like the Aesthetix or such.

Detlof · Feb 13, 2017

Mike said: "For me the answer is to have great digital, great vinyl and great tape, then forget about all of that and just enjoy the music."

That sums it up for me perfectly, but it was quite a road to get there.

Al M. · Feb 13, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
Analog IMHO remains king at tone, tonal density, tonal discrimination, heft and sheer exhuberant energy
This was amply demonstrated when after a session at Audiophile Bill's covering SGM w GG and Dac8, we put Nirvana on his trusty Kuzma tt, and the tidal wave of analog substance just reinstated Lp as top dog by quite a margin

That is just one anecdotal example, Spirit. I can give you another one: I heard Green Day's "American Idiot" on LP in one system that can sound authoritative, but the CD of the same music sounds with much more tonal heft, exuberant energy, authority and sheer size in my system. Does that make digital better?

Another example: in one and the same system the 24/192 download of that same Green Day album sounded completely anemic and small, and the 16/44 file much fuller and bigger. What does that tell us? Not much, probably, other than that the 24/192 mastering sucked. In the same way, the CD mastering of the Nirvana album might have been inferior to the LP mastering (if you even did the comparison, that is).

Unless you can come up with consistent trends, rather than relying on anecdotal examples, I am afraid that your assertions are on shaky ground. And again, even just slight differences in tonal balance between the media can make for large perceptual differences in tonal density and transparency. Don't underestimate that phenomenon.

Barry2013 · Feb 13, 2017

Only you can decide Marc, but Ked was here last Saturday with the UK Dave Berning distributor to compare my Vitus SIA 025 with a DB pre power ZOTL Quad Z mono power amps rig and I won't tresspass on his forthcoming write up but on both set ups (Townshend Rock V/OL Encounter/Dynavector DV 1t and DCS Puccini/Scarlatti clock, YG Kipod Signature passives) the vinyl sound quality was the clear winner with both amps.
Questions that I would pose in trying to decide are could you really live without your vinyl collection and all the hassle of digitising them.
Would you find going digital as user friendly as with physical media notwithstanding the range of choice with Tidal et al, The range of music now available on good quality vinyl has soared in the last two or three years too.
For around half or less than the cost of the SGM you could on the used market with bit of patience and looking put together a very good tt package and get an expert to set it up for you. I did just that and although I have asked myself the same question more than once I have quickly concluded that will not get rid of my tt.
I may in the future branch out into more serious downloading but will not forego the vinyl playback.
My reading of the various contributions to the continuing debate on this forum of digital v vinyl is that there is a clear majority for the SQ of analogue though obviously some disagree.

Should I stay, or should I go?

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