MB Thread Comment

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 22, 2010
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Steve let me know folk were upset by my post about the possibility of HF rolloff and my comment about it being idle speculation. It was in no way my intent to take a jab at Steve nor anyone else and I am sorry I did not explain further. I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek in hopes it might add a bit of levity but was serious in that it was speculative and against Steve's wishes for the thread. I had no idea people took it so badly until Steve let me know. This is one of those cases of misunderstanding that would not have happened face-to-face. I meant what I said literally: I have not heard the cables, have no technical data, and thus no basis for saying there is any sort of HF roll-off. It was speculation based on my impression of some of the earlier responses. I am very interested in the technical aspects but my comment was taken the wrong way given the atmosphere of the thread. My fault for not being more clear and you have my apologies.

This is the original post, which was in response to MadFloyd's question about who had said anything about HF rolloff with MB cables. As I said in the earlier post, that was purely my conjecture based on what I had read in the MB thread. I did not realize Steve had responded right after that until today (I generally post at work between test runs so sometimes miss posts; I was working today, for that matter, and yes it is Saturday -- been a long couple of years).

I said:
Insignificant speculation per Steve, just ignore it.
There is a theory that ultrasonic information is required due to beat frequencies that fall within the audible range.
Extended HF has lost much for me at my age; the 22-24 kHz range I had in college is now in the 10-12 kHz range.

In hindsight I should have put a smiley or something after the first line, but I really, literally meant what I said and AFAIK said nothing more on it. Leif responded immediately after saying there was no HF roll-off, along with others, and I did not respond as I did not feel it needful and accepted their statements. I am interested in the technology but am unlikely to ever hear them in any system let alone mine. Reading it now, in light of what Steve said, I see why others took it the way they did, but it really was not what I meant. I should have clarified my comment.

Sorry, take care - Don
 

853guy

Active Member
Aug 14, 2013
1,161
10
38
Steve let me know folk were upset by my post about the possibility of HF rolloff and my comment about it being idle speculation. It was in no way my intent to take a jab at Steve nor anyone else and I am sorry I did not explain further. I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek in hopes it might add a bit of levity but was serious in that it was speculative and against Steve's wishes for the thread. I had no idea people took it so badly until Steve let me know. This is one of those cases of misunderstanding that would not have happened face-to-face. I meant what I said literally: I have not heard the cables, have no technical data, and thus no basis for saying there is any sort of HF roll-off. It was speculation based on my impression of some of the earlier responses. I am very interested in the technical aspects but my comment was taken the wrong way given the atmosphere of the thread. My fault for not being more clear and you have my apologies.

This is the original post, which was in response to MadFloyd's question about who had said anything about HF rolloff with MB cables. As I said in the earlier post, that was purely my conjecture based on what I had read in the MB thread. I did not realize Steve had responded right after that until today (I generally post at work between test runs so sometimes miss posts; I was working today, for that matter, and yes it is Saturday -- been a long couple of years).

(...)

In hindsight I should have put a smiley or something after the first line, but I really, literally meant what I said and AFAIK said nothing more on it. Leif responded immediately after saying there was no HF roll-off, along with others, and I did not respond as I did not feel it needful and accepted their statements. I am interested in the technology but am unlikely to ever hear them in any system let alone mine. Reading it now, in light of what Steve said, I see why others took it the way they did, but it really was not what I meant. I should have clarified my comment.

Sorry, take care - Don

You're a gentleman and a scholar, Don.

Though I take no issue with anything you wrote, I appreciate the fact you took the time to post this. It's part of what makes WBF rare among forums - especially forums that discuss things as arcane as the potential for HF roll-off apropos cables costing more than my first two cars combined*.

Have a great weekend - if indeed, it is that you manage to have one (says the man working furiously to get done before his son's birthday in six hours).

853guy

*An Alfa Sud and a 33 if you must know. Ah, torque steer and unreliability - what a beguiling combo.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I agree. Don is a gentleman and a scholar and it is a shame that so much fall out has occurred in a thread that had no malice aforethought.

As Gavin reminded us all that this is a hobby and to let such things get in the way of grown adults is sad indeed
 

Leif S

Industry Expert
Feb 13, 2015
770
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California
www.vonschweikert.com
I agree. Don is a gentleman and a scholar and it is a shame that so much fall out has occurred in a thread that had no malice aforethought.

As Gavin reminded us all that this is a hobby and to let such things get in the way of grown adults is sad indeed

I agree about Don as well. It's a shame that just because some people don't understand how MB engineer and fabricate their products, they choose to try and tear MB down instead. When I talked to MB today about this their answer was simple, if we explain this, then it's not so proprietary anymore. Why would we do this? The worst part is the people posting everything negative have absolutely no interest in the MB cables. The thread was for owners of MB to share their experience with these cables.

All the best,

Leif
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
6,774
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Boston, MA
Don, I totally understood what you meant by your comment. And so should have others, because you deserved the benefit of the doubt.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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You're a gentleman and a scholar, Don.

Though I take no issue with anything you wrote, I appreciate the fact you took the time to post this.

Big +1
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,318
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Manila, Philippines
I love Don. Don, I hope you don't think I took it in any way other than you meant literally. My reply was simply to express my agreement with Leif that the whole point of MB is to get as much unfiltered signal from end to end as possible with the least noise and that is what I've been getting. IMO no apologies are necessary on your part. Personally I felt your post was very clear.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,318
1,427
1,820
Manila, Philippines
Don, I totally understood what you meant by your comment. And so should have others, because you deserved the benefit of the doubt.

Tasos, I respect your show me philosophy. Mine is demo me. There should be no conflict here. We all know there are many ways to skin a cat. For others the how is not as important as the what. I promise you that if one day you choose to get yourself the shown 80k/pair Speaker cables of MIT, I'll just be happy for you and no it doesn't matter if I agree with having a briefcase full set of passive devices to do it or not, or how any other cable makers get to their final product's performance for that matter. I'll be happy for you just because you're happy. It would be nice if you could be the same with us, even if our relationship won't change for the worse if you don't. I am in the industry and I continue to be so at my client's behest. Bringing the joy of music into other's homes is our mission. If we can't there are others that can. We just want to do what we can with what we have.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,625
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E. England
Oh come on, we're big boys on this forum
It's populated by rich guys w big egos
I don't see why Don has to apologise for anything
If a thread which I consider to be the very lowest point WBF has ever descended, gets buried under the weight of all the wrong things, Don's comments really are the least of worries
The least
Things to worry about in the thread?
Where does one start?
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,423
2,516
1,448

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,625
5,432
1,278
E. England
There's never a metaphorical last word on these threads that go toxic
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
8,785
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Greater Boston
There's never a metaphorical last word on these threads that go toxic

I didn't think the thread went toxic. There were just technical concerns voiced that some found unpleasant.

Perhaps it was inappropriate to suggest that Steve wasn't entitled to change his mind on issues, and to hold past statements against him. I change my mind all the time, and sometimes even laugh about my past opinions. In fact, the inability to change your mind is not intellectual strength, but intellectual, as well as emotional, weakness. So I am firmly on Steve's side on this one.

And no, I don't think Don has anything to apologize for. I do appreciate his opening post here, a true gentleman indeed.
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
6,774
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580
Boston, MA
Tasos, I respect your show me philosophy. Mine is demo me. There should be no conflict here. We all know there are many ways to skin a cat. For others the how is not as important as the what. I promise you that if one day you choose to get yourself the shown 80k/pair Speaker cables of MIT, I'll just be happy for you and no it doesn't matter if I agree with having a briefcase full set of passive devices to do it or not, or how any other cable makers get to their final product's performance for that matter. I'll be happy for you just because you're happy. It would be nice if you could be the same with us, even if our relationship won't change for the worse if you don't. I am in the industry and I continue to be so at my client's behest. Bringing the joy of music into other's homes is our mission. If we can't there are others that can. We just want to do what we can with what we have.

Jack, thanks for reaching out. First of all, I will never ever spend anywhere near what you quoted on cables. Second, personally, happiness has nothing to do with material things, but if this stuff makes you guys happy, I am happy for you. The family went to the BSO last night to listen to Symphonie Fantastique, and it was Ravishing; I was shaking my head toward the end, in pure disbelief - that's what makes me happy. Meantime, I and others continue to debate just the merits of the products themselves, and not the posters.

As far as MB goes, an over-hyped product without verifiable data and science is bordering a miracle - do you guys believe in miracles? We here will be listening to these cables soon, and I bet we will have more measured words to describe the sound. I also just noticed this post from Marty http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19340-Shunyata-Venom-Phono-cable&p=435611#post435611 expressing a little reservation:

no desire to spend an arm and a leg on MB cables (for which I have some sonic reservations

And finally, I find personal attacks and innuendos (especially from manufacturers) just simply boring. And I am not referring to you.

Be good.
 

SCAudiophile

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2010
1,183
468
1,205
Greer South Carolina (USA)
Steve let me know folk were upset by my post about the possibility of HF rolloff and my comment about it being idle speculation. It was in no way my intent to take a jab at Steve nor anyone else and I am sorry I did not explain further. I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek in hopes it might add a bit of levity but was serious in that it was speculative and against Steve's wishes for the thread. I had no idea people took it so badly until Steve let me know. This is one of those cases of misunderstanding that would not have happened face-to-face. I meant what I said literally: I have not heard the cables, have no technical data, and thus no basis for saying there is any sort of HF roll-off. It was speculation based on my impression of some of the earlier responses. I am very interested in the technical aspects but my comment was taken the wrong way given the atmosphere of the thread. My fault for not being more clear and you have my apologies.

This is the original post, which was in response to MadFloyd's question about who had said anything about HF rolloff with MB cables. As I said in the earlier post, that was purely my conjecture based on what I had read in the MB thread. I did not realize Steve had responded right after that until today (I generally post at work between test runs so sometimes miss posts; I was working today, for that matter, and yes it is Saturday -- been a long couple of years).

I said:


In hindsight I should have put a smiley or something after the first line, but I really, literally meant what I said and AFAIK said nothing more on it. Leif responded immediately after saying there was no HF roll-off, along with others, and I did not respond as I did not feel it needful and accepted their statements. I am interested in the technology but am unlikely to ever hear them in any system let alone mine. Reading it now, in light of what Steve said, I see why others took it the way they did, but it really was not what I meant. I should have clarified my comment.

Sorry, take care - Don

Don,

This post is a class act and I agree with others that you are a gentleman and a scholar. FWIW, I don't understand why others became so worked up by this original post as, reading it for a 2nd time, your intent and meaning are clear and not inline with all of the heat generated. Nicely done,...have a great day!
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
7,097
414
1,210
Northern NY
I am very surprised that cable discussions become so contentious.....lol

My brief thought on cabling industry ? It has the highest profit margin of any item in a hi end audio system. It's not even close compared to margins on the actual equipment that makes the sound. You can extrapolate further from there if you like. I held my nose when I wrote the obscene check for my wire needs.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,318
1,427
1,820
Manila, Philippines
Jack, thanks for reaching out. First of all, I will never ever spend anywhere near what you quoted on cables. Second, personally, happiness has nothing to do with material things, but if this stuff makes you guys happy, I am happy for you. The family went to the BSO last night to listen to Symphonie Fantastique, and it was Ravishing; I was shaking my head toward the end, in pure disbelief - that's what makes me happy. Meantime, I and others continue to debate just the merits of the products themselves, and not the posters.

As far as MB goes, an over-hyped product without verifiable data and science is bordering a miracle - do you guys believe in miracles? We here will be listening to these cables soon, and I bet we will have more measured words to describe the sound. I also just noticed this post from Marty http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19340-Shunyata-Venom-Phono-cable&p=435611#post435611 expressing a little reservation:



And finally, I find personal attacks and innuendos (especially from manufacturers) just simply boring. And I am not referring to you.

Be good.

Be good? Did you just give me the online version of a pat on the head?

Music brings happiness. The various goods you speak of to achieve happiness through music at home you own yourself. None of them are cheap either. Take a minute to reassess your insinuation by looking in the mirror.
 

es347

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
1,577
35
970
Midwest fly over state..
Tasos, I respect your show me philosophy. Mine is demo me. There should be no conflict here. We all know there are many ways to skin a cat. For others the how is not as important as the what. I promise you that if one day you choose to get yourself the shown 80k/pair Speaker cables of MIT, I'll just be happy for you and no it doesn't matter if I agree with having a briefcase full set of passive devices to do it or not, or how any other cable makers get to their final product's performance for that matter. I'll be happy for you just because you're happy. It would be nice if you could be the same with us, even if our relationship won't change for the worse if you don't. I am in the industry and I continue to be so at my client's behest. Bringing the joy of music into other's homes is our mission. If we can't there are others that can. We just want to do what we can with what we have.

..as an ardent cat lover I am offended by your post ;):rolleyes:
 

es347

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
1,577
35
970
Midwest fly over state..
Oh come on, we're big boys on this forum
It's populated by rich guys w big egos
I don't see why Don has to apologise for anything
If a thread which I consider to be the very lowest point WBF has ever descended, gets buried under the weight of all the wrong things, Don's comments really are the least of worries
The least
Things to worry about in the thread?
Where does one start?

..how about here: with all the crap that's going on in the world today things audio is the least of my worries
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
6,774
1,198
580
Boston, MA
Be good? Did you just give me the online version of a pat on the head?

Music brings happiness. The various goods you speak of to achieve happiness through music at home you own yourself. None of them are cheap either. Take a minute to reassess your insinuation by looking in the mirror.

Pat in the head??? :confused: If nothing else, I was wishing you well with a virtual handshake... And I am not really happy or proud of the money I have invested in this hobby, but I do enjoy the results. Live music is what make me truly happy in this hobby.
 

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