Will MQA drive hdtracks, acoustic sounds, and other hirez sites out of business?

Rhapsody

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:rolleyes:

that's a big claim.

MQA's street cred is not helped by such high flying comments. I'm neutral on MQA until I get a chance to personally investigate it. but setting it at the same level as vinyl or RTR tape speaks more to one's standards for those formats than any objective view.

and I view you as a credible person who knows stuff.

I have lots of Quad dsd and dxd and I love it. and maybe MQA gets in that neighborhood plus or minus a little. but that's not anywhere close to the best of vinyl or tape.

I guess we just have to allow things to play out and let the dust settle. I applaud the promise of MQA and as music lovers it can be good for all of us. so I'm no negative Nellie on it.

Hi Mike, I am just reporting what I have experienced and hear in my set ups. I would not classify my R2R or my vinyl as A+++ but they are not too shabby either. And both the vinyl and the tape sound "jaw droppingly" good with a vg recording.

But if you put on a great recording of NOT only MQA but just regular streaming Tidal and listen, at least for me, I never think that it is less sonically pleasing than the vinyl or the tape.

All of my statements come since I started listening to Tidal through the AurenderN10 and the MSB Select DAC. MQA through the Select DAC is up several sonic notches over 16/44.1 files BUT if you heard what I am hearing with regular Tidal streaming I think you might agree that it is just as pleasing, with a vg recording, as tape or vinyl or dsd or high res pcm.

One clarification is that I am NOT saying that Tidal streaming or MQA "sounds better", what I am saying is that if you put on a great vinyl or tape recording and it sounds so good that it just dazzles you and you get totally enthralled in the listening experience, anyway this is what happens to me. Well with Tidal streaming through my recent set up, it does the same thing to me. I would not say that DSD, tape or vinyl "get me there" any more than Tidal streaming does and it has to do with the overall musical listening experience. It's actually hard to put into words....but I'm trying:)
 
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Rhapsody

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Ah, NO. I am not hiding behind anything. And I have heard MQA. My point is that MQA is a backdoor to DRM.

As has been said by some others, both in this forum and on other ones, a very good music file IS going to sound very good. MQA, PCM, DSD, DXD. Though I hate to give MQA the same standing along side those others.

And this talk about time domain and anti-blurring, etc, is fine except you do not need MQA to do this. You can do this and do it better then MQA with HQ Player and do it with ALL the files you already own and will own.

To some other posters.
I LIKE Tidal and use it. I sometimes find new music with Tidal, some of which I buy by download. And yes Tidal sounds great, at least the CD quality version. And it sounds even better when up-sampled with HQP. But I have to disagree that Tidal sounds as good as the better HiRz PCM and DSD files with or without using HQP.
If I find something new on Tidal and can buy it in a HiRz format of good quality then I buy it. Because if done right it will sound better then the Tidal version.

Back to MQA. How does it sound? To my ears with an apple to apple, though that can NEVER be 100%, using the best available I find it falls short of the competition overall.

So at least for me, at this time, I get better sound over all using HQ Player.

For me it has so much to do with the system. I have worked for months to get Tidal streaming to come up to high res formats. I was NOT able to do it until I started using the Select DAC. Since I started using the Select Dac with the latest FW upgrade and the latest USB/MQA module, which also improved the regular Tidal streaming, it has me in lala land. And I would say that I am VERY particular and if it was not magical sounding I would not be making such claims.

I have an open door in the middle of Manhattan if anyone would like to experience it for yourself.
 

Rhapsody

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Do you get the dynamics of R2R tape with Tidal MQA streaming?

Without a doubt, yes. But it's more about a 20' X 20' 3D holographic soundstage with each instrument in it's own space and the harmonics coming off of each instrument completely discernable vs harmonics coming from another instrument.

I have vinyl or tapes that sound incredible and yes sonically they will sound better than an average Tidal streaming track. But if you stream a VG original recording then it will compete, not saying better, but compete, but not in just "how it sounds" more about how it makes me feel. I must say that it does have to sound incredible to "get me there". Tidal streaming makes me feel the same as I do with good vinyl or tape. Probably just me, but it works for me......I'm a happy camper.
 
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microstrip

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A high percentage (40%, 50%?) of the music I listen to is not on Tidal, and a lot of the music I have heard about but not yet heard is also not on Tidal. So I would say this statement is not true

You are a happy man - for me it would be around 90% or higher. And currently, although TIDAL CD is quite good, a CD or SACD played in the Vivaldi transport sounds significantly better than TIDAL.
 

amirm

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Hi Amir,

I am with you - I don't understand the need to compare digital to vinyl, as they are different. From my perspective, and I am with Rvisinta, when I get in the flow, it's all great.

Question for you: can you tell apart PCM from DSD?
Hi Caesar. It is on my todo list to test that. For now, I find the reverse conversion of DSD to PCM to substantially raise the volume by default, making such converted DSD to sound better than equiv. PCM. Making the levels equal made the difference vanish.

I plan to test HQPlayer both objectively and subjectively in on the fly conversion. I will post the results when I do.
 

amirm

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A high percentage (40%, 50%?) of the music I listen to is not on Tidal, and a lot of the music I have heard about but not yet heard is also not on Tidal. So I would say this statement is not true
I occasionally find something is missing on Tidal too. Half the time it is the search engine that is at fault on Tidal. I usually try that on Roon and sometimes one or the other finds it. Other times I use google to find it. But yes, there is music missing but there is so much on Tidal that I need to find to listen to that it doesn't matter to me. I queue up music I discover on Tidal using Roon and right now I have probably two dozen albums I have not had time to listen to. Why regret what is not there instead of enjoying the massive amount that is there?
 

Ken Newton

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...And this talk about time domain and anti-blurring, etc, is fine except you do not need MQA to do this. You can do this and do it better then MQA with HQ Player and do it with ALL the files you already own and will own...

It's not a matter of needing MQA to optimize for the time domain. It's a matter of MQA requiring time domain optimization - from recording through playback in MQA's fullest form. Which is not required without MQA.
 
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rbbert

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I occasionally find something is missing on Tidal too. Half the time it is the search engine that is at fault on Tidal. I usually try that on Roon and sometimes one or the other finds it. Other times I use google to find it. But yes, there is music missing but there is so much on Tidal that I need to find to listen to that it doesn't matter to me. I queue up music I discover on Tidal using Roon and right now I have probably two dozen albums I have not had time to listen to. Why regret what is not there instead of enjoying the massive amount that is there?

No regrets. But as it is I have more music to listen to than I will ever have time for. To say that a music lover must have a need for Tidal (or even a desire) is just plain untrue. Someday it might be, but at present it's not even close to true.

addendum: If you are a young lover of popular music, Tidal is probably great. If you've been listening to and collecting music for over 50 years, and have tastes beyond the popular, Tidal has a long way to go. Its selection of jazz, classical, bluegrass and other less popular genres of music (that also tend to have more lasting musical interest) is poor.
 
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astrotoy

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Not being a Tidal subscriber, but one who may have the opportunity to have an MQA enabled high quality DAC, I want to understand better the situation that the OP asks. First, must one always be connected to the internet to be able to play MQA Tidal files. Or can one download the files and play them off line, say in the car or when outside a wifi enabled area (assuming one does not have a high or unlimited data internet connected mobile phone). So to have equivalent access to a digital file that one obtains from a download or ripping a CD or SACD, one must be paying a monthly internet fee in addition to the Tidal subscription, and one must also pay a data fee for a mobile phone to use Tidal. So the Tidal subscription price is actually a small fraction of the monthly cost, if one also includes the other internet access charges.

In considering the OP, I am also trying to consider what economic model is Sprint using in their purchase of Tidal. I think it probably is looking at the monthly mobile phone charges it collects and how to expand its customer base by providing a greater value to its customers or being able to charge them more. I don't think that Sprint is considering the affect on the companies that the OP mentions. However, they do have to think about what Sprint is looking at doing and how that might affect their future.

Since public wifi is becoming more common, often free, does anyone know whether that is good enough to use Tidal MQA without interruptions. My experience with surfing the internet on such facilities is that it is pretty slow much of the time.

Finally, is MQA only a PCM based system, or can it compress DSD?

Thanks, Larry
 

still-one

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Not being a Tidal subscriber, but one who may have the opportunity to have an MQA enabled high quality DAC, I want to understand better the situation that the OP asks. First, must one always be connected to the internet to be able to play MQA Tidal files. Or can one download the files and play them off line, say in the car or when outside a wifi enabled area (assuming one does not have a high or unlimited data internet connected mobile phone). So to have equivalent access to a digital file that one obtains from a download or ripping a CD or SACD, one must be paying a monthly internet fee in addition to the Tidal subscription, and one must also pay a data fee for a mobile phone to use Tidal. So the Tidal subscription price is actually a small fraction of the monthly cost, if one also includes the other internet access charges.

In considering the OP, I am also trying to consider what economic model is Sprint using in their purchase of Tidal. I think it probably is looking at the monthly mobile phone charges it collects and how to expand its customer base by providing a greater value to its customers or being able to charge them more. I don't think that Sprint is considering the affect on the companies that the OP mentions. However, they do have to think about what Sprint is looking at doing and how that might affect their future.

Since public wifi is becoming more common, often free, does anyone know whether that is good enough to use Tidal MQA without interruptions. My experience with surfing the internet on such facilities is that it is pretty slow much of the time.

Finally, is MQA only a PCM based system, or can it compress DSD?

Thanks, Larry

You do not "always" need to be connected to the internet to play MQA titles. If you are not currently connected your choices will be limited as Tidal has the largest number of titles. You still have the ability to purchase and download MQA music just as you would with hi-rez music PCM or DSD.
 

caesar

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Is Tidal portable among devices, such as ipad, phone, etc., via one single subscription? Or does one need multiple subscriptions if one wants to play it at home on their system vs. on their phone on the go?

Also, upon viewing a song to play, how are MQA files indicated in the interface? Can one search for MQA songs?

Thanks
 

amirm

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Is Tidal portable among devices, such as ipad, phone, etc., via one single subscription? Or does one need multiple subscriptions if one wants to play it at home on their system vs. on their phone on the go?
Anywhere you can login, you can play. I use it to stream in my car all the time on my phone with the same one subscription. Same subscription works on multiple PCs at home.

Also, upon viewing a song to play, how are MQA files indicated in the interface? Can one search for MQA songs?
It has a top-level menu choice in the user interface. So all you have to do is click on it and it shows all such titles in inventory.
 

still-one

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Anywhere you can login, you can play. I use it to stream in my car all the time on my phone with the same one subscription. Same subscription works on multiple PCs at home.


It has a top-level menu choice in the user interface. So all you have to do is click on it and it shows all such titles in inventory.

That's not currently true. Only about 600 of the ~1400 MQA titles show up under the Masters tab in the US. There is a spreadsheet maintained on the Roon website that shows the MQA titles currently identified by users.
 

NorthStar

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People seem to be excited streaming MQA over tidal. People who have heard this seem to be reporting great results. Now that a little time has passed and initial excitement has worn off, is MQA streaming still the best way to go?

I could definitely see mobile fidelity, analogue productions ,audio fidelity, etc., survive MQA if they continue doing a great job remastering. And I can see acoustic sounds selling dsd downloads to the niche market that enjoys that sound. But I have no idea about hi Rez downloads, as that content really lacks transparency pertaining to mastering/ remastering sources, forcing people to take a gamble with their money ...

Are MQA streamed files really better than a 24/96 or 24/192 downloaded files? 100 percent of the time, 75%, 50%, 30%?

Good afternoon Julius (Caesar). :b

Just a link, that might be of interest to you, and to others: COMPARISON: Hardware-Decoded MQA

Procedure:
"As you can imagine, in order to best objectively assess hardware decoding of MQA beyond 88/96kHz which the TIDAL software is able to do, we would have to start with a track that is "true" high resolution with ultrasonic content and low noise floor. We would also want to have access to the original native resolution >96kHz file and on TIDAL so we can compare to pure software decoding. To "capture" the sound, we can use the same DAC and record the track in the actual original resolution, then have TIDAL software decode and record that, and finally record the DAC output using the "full" hardware/firmware MQA decoding from the DAC."
 

Rhapsody

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Rhapsody

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:rolleyes:

that's a big claim.

MQA's street cred is not helped by such high flying comments. I'm neutral on MQA until I get a chance to personally investigate it. but setting it at the same level as vinyl or RTR tape speaks more to one's standards for those formats than any objective view.

and I view you as a credible person who knows stuff.

I have lots of Quad dsd and dxd and I love it. and maybe MQA gets in that neighborhood plus or minus a little. but that's not anywhere close to the best of vinyl or tape.

I guess we just have to allow things to play out and let the dust settle. I applaud the promise of MQA and as music lovers it can be good for all of us. so I'm no negative Nellie on it.

Hi Mike, I spent the day with a "special guy" yesterday, I will let him discuss his experience if he decides to do so, but I felt that I needed to update and clarify my comments regarding vinyl, tape and Tidal streaming hifi OR MQA streaming.

After listening for I think 4 or 5 hours of vinyl and tape, which I really never do, the vinyl and especially the tape SONICALLY are in another league from DSD, cd or streaming Tidal. There is really no comparison sonically.

Although after listening and realizing how much better the vinyl and tape sound today I am back to streaming Tidal, not even MQA, but regular streaming hifi Tidal and until the next time someone comes in and we put the vinyl and tape through the paces I will probably never play either.

For me it's a daily lifestyle thing. I just love picking up the Ipad and hitting play and the only reason I can be satisfied with this is that although if you compare streaming to vinyl or tape and admittedly there is no sonic comparison, but my overall listening experience with streaming is so satisfying and rewarding that I am in sonic heaven.

It has a lot to do with the selection of music available and being able to jump around when I feel like it from album to album. It's mood dependent, sometimes I listen to complete albums but other times I just like hearing 2-3 tracks from an artist and then move to something else.

I also just like how the Aurender and the MSB Select DAC perform together especially for streaming. They make old 50', 60' and 70's music come alive more consistently from track to track and album to album than any other format.

So, for me it's Tidal streaming, but if you put on vinyl or tape then yes it's definitely an elevated sonic experience.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Hi Mike, I spent the day with a "special guy" yesterday, I will let him discuss his experience if he decides to do so, but I felt that I needed to update and clarify my comments regarding vinyl, tape and Tidal streaming hifi OR MQA streaming.

After listening for I think 4 or 5 hours of vinyl and tape, which I really never do, the vinyl and especially the tape SONICALLY are in another league from DSD, cd or streaming Tidal. There is really no comparison sonically.

Although after listening and realizing how much better the vinyl and tape sound today I am back to streaming Tidal, not even MQA, but regular streaming hifi Tidal and until the next time someone comes in and we put the vinyl and tape through the paces I will probably never play either.

For me it's a daily lifestyle thing. I just love picking up the Ipad and hitting play and the only reason I can be satisfied with this is that although if you compare streaming to vinyl or tape and admittedly there is no sonic comparison, but my overall listening experience with streaming is so satisfying and rewarding that I am in sonic heaven.

It has a lot to do with the selection of music available and being able to jump around when I feel like it from album to album. It's mood dependent, sometimes I listen to complete albums but other times I just like hearing 2-3 tracks from an artist and then move to something else.

I also just like how the Aurender and the MSB Select DAC perform together especially for streaming. They make old 50', 60' and 70's music come alive more consistently from track to track and album to album than any other format.

So, for me it's Tidal streaming, but if you put on vinyl or tape then yes it's definitely an elevated sonic experience.

Bob,

I very much appreciate you taking my comments in the spirit in which they were offered. I try my best to avoid being negative about anything; and I'm positive about a process like MQA that might (and likely does) bring us music lovers better sonics while allowing easier access to the music we want.

I've been working a couple of years now to improve the digital performance in my system because that is what I listen to the most, it's just easier and more complimentary to my needs, so in that way I'm just like you. for me the SGM music server, and HQ Player have improved my digital listening experience, and possibly soon MQA might be added to my mix......although at this point not sure where it will happen for me. and no doubt that with the MSB Select II streaming MQA you are right at the top of the heap of what can be done digitally.

thank you for taking the time to focus on vinyl and tape and revisit what is special about those formats. at the higher levels of vinyl and tape no doubt they are in another world of performance beyond digital as we currently see it. at certain times I've caught myself feeling very overwhelmed with how great my digital has sounded, and voiced that sort of euphoric viewpoint. then later listening to vinyl or tape reality smacks me upside the head as to how far behind digital still is. so I get where the comments come from about great digital can sound. it does make you forget about analog......until you hear the best of analog.

we don't need to have digital be as good as analog. it can be 'similar' or 'like' analog, be at our fingertips when and how we want, and we can be thrilled with that. it's a great time for the digital music listener.

cheers.
 
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Rhapsody

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Bob,

I very much appreciate you taking my comments in the spirit in which they were offered. I try my best to avoid being negative about anything; and I'm positive about a process like MQA that might (and likely does) bring us music lovers better sonics while allowing easier access to the music we want.

I've been working a couple of years now to improve the digital performance in my system because that is what I listen to the most, it's just easier and more complimentary to my needs, so in that way I'm just like you. for me the SGM music server, and HQ Player have improved my digital listening experience, and possibly soon MQA might be added to my mix......although at this point not sure where it will happen for me. and no doubt that with the MSB Select II streaming MQA you are right at the top of the heap of what can be done digitally.

thank you for taking the time to focus on vinyl and tape and revisit what is special about those formats. at the higher levels of vinyl and tape no doubt they are in another world of performance beyond digital as we currently see it. at certain times I've caught myself feeling very overwhelmed with how great my digital has sounded, and voiced that sort of euphoric viewpoint. then later listening to vinyl or tape reality smacks me upside the head as to how far behind digital still is. so I get where the comments come from about great digital can sound. it does make you forget about analog......until you hear the best of analog.

we don't need to have digital be as good as analog. it can be 'similar' or 'like' analog, be at our fingertips when and how we want, and we can be thrilled with that. it's a great time for the digital music listener.

cheers.

Thx Mike, we are on the same page and I for one DID get "smacked in the head" yesterday:)
 

Rhapsody

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