Will MQA drive hdtracks, acoustic sounds, and other hirez sites out of business?

spiritofmusic · Feb 13, 2017

Bob, you and to some extent me, are in a bit of a minority here
Material like Yes from 1968 debut album should have no business sounding as great as it does on Blue's system, but it is stellar
It's on occasions like this I actually become aware of the shortcomings and inconsistencies of vinyl playback
And this good vibe is across the board
The Dac8 leaves a little tonal discrimination and density to be desired, and if I get a chance to hear the Aqua Formula doing HQPd dxd via the SGM, from Mike Lavigne's report, this could be this listeners passport to making the switch
Honestly? I feel unsure even considering this, like a painful divorce, or letting the side down
Analog has been a faithful and trustworthy friend, burning the midnight oil binging on Lp listening, and buying albums, swapping them w friends, is one of if not the most significant cultural activities I've personally partaken in, LOADS more important than good beer, or even good (and bad ) sex!

Rhapsody · Feb 13, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
Bob, you and to some extent me, are in a bit of a minority here
Material like Yes from 1968 debut album should have no business sounding as great as it does on Blue's system, but it is stellar
It's on occasions like this I actually become aware of the shortcomings and inconsistencies of vinyl playback
And this good vibe is across the board
The Dac8 leaves a little tonal discrimination and density to be desired, and if I get a chance to hear the Aqua Formula doing HQPd dxd via the SGM, from Mike Lavigne's report, this could be this listeners passport to making the switch
Honestly? I feel unsure even considering this, like a painful divorce, or letting the side down
Analog has been a faithful and trustworthy friend, and buying albums, swapping them w friends, is one of if not the most consistent cultural activities I've personally partaken in, LOADS more important than good beer, or even good (and bad ) sex!

BINGO, you hit the nail on the head. ESPECIALLY rock from 50s, 60s and 70s sounds incredible via Tidal streaming. And it's pretty much across the board with little variance from album to album, they all sound very, very good. Sure if the recording is great, it will sound better, but as you noted about the Yes album, I have a few hundred favorited old rock recordings on Tidal and they all sound really, really good. Play a cd of most of those albums and they are unlistenable to me.

I also find that new music like my favorite duo Julia and Angus Stone, or London Grammar, Agnes Obel, Ben Howard etc., which are all new artists I found on Tidal and now love their music, sound incredible via Tidal.

Jazz sounds very good as well to me on Tidal. Classical I would probably prefer vinyl or tape, WITH VG recordings, but I am mostly new music, jazz and then older rock.....this is why Tidal works so well for me.

mauidan · Feb 13, 2017

https://www.linn.co.uk/blog/mqa-is-bad-for-music

Rhapsody · Feb 16, 2017

http://www.musicweek.com/digital/re...to-hi-res-audio-with-mqa-collaboration/067522

http://musically.com/2017/02/16/umg-backs-mqa-predicts-half-dozen-hi-res-streaming-launches-2017/

spiritofmusic · Feb 16, 2017

Sorry to be a dunce, but is this good or bad news?

Rhapsody · Feb 16, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
Sorry to be a dunce, but is this good or bad news?
????

The naysayers surely will come up with reasons why it's "bad news".....for me, it's GREAT NEWS

....why? Because it's more music that will eventually become available via MQA. Plus as the second article suggests, if it's not Tidal someone will be offering MQA as with now two of the major record labels signed up, it at least at this time would seem to point in that direction.

microstrip · Feb 16, 2017

Does any one have technical details on the MQA encoder? What bit rates and formats (DSD?) are accepted as sources for producing MQA files?

rbbert · Feb 16, 2017

microstrip said:
Does any one have technical details on the MQA encoder? What bit rates and formats (DSD?) are accepted as sources for producing MQA files?

I don't have the links readily available, but I did read a good part of a several hundred page patent application, which can probably still be found through the US Patent office Web site. I'm pretty sure MQA was not in the title, but Robert Stuart was listed as one of the applicants.

In short, MQA is a PCM based system, with any kind of master being converted to PCM. It is claimed in the application that up to 24/96 is lossless (although the actual math suggests it actually isn't perfectly lossless), while 24/192 is lossy but lossless through the "audio range". There are several steps involved in the process; in the patent application there is no mention of them being able to be "run" separately, but the Tidal experience now shows us that this can happen. Although perhaps theoretically possible for the "ADC/DAC" timing and phase correction to be calculated and implemented using only mathematics, in fact the patent application only nebulously mentions that the final "confirmation" (of correctness) is performed by ear (i.e., listening).

You should find it and read it yourself; I may be a bit off on some of the finer details, but I'm pretty sure I got the main points.

rbbert · Feb 16, 2017

A potential bright side is that this should force Universal to quit their audible watermarking of hi-res files, at least the ones that will be MQA. I can't see anyone involved in MQA going along with that. To date I haven't found that watermarking on any of my classical or non-BlueNote jazz downloads, but it's on all the pop/rock and Blue Note jazz downloads after mid-2012. Somewhat fortunately (if it has to be there at all), it's much quieter on some albums than others. Although by extracting the Audiodiffmaker difference file I can hear this on The Rolling Stones in Mono and Who's Next, for example, it is quiet enough that I can't hear it in the music (it measures about 50-60 dB below the average signal level). On some other albums, like the Stones Blue and Lonesome, it is much louder (only about 30 dB down) and is unfortunately audible in places. I've heard that some other pop/rock hi-res downloads are even worse.

Rhapsody · Feb 16, 2017

I didn't realize that under the UMG umbrella there is - UMG's labels include ECM, Interscope, Geffen, A&M, Capitol, Island, Def Jam, Decca, Verve, Blue Note, Virgin, and EMI."

Game over regarding whether MQA and Tidal will survive. If it's not Tidal surely someone else will offer MQA via streaming. Yippee!!!

http://www.stereophile.com/content/universal-music-group-goes-mqa#6gQc6S2gBUldeH17.97

rbbert · Feb 16, 2017

Much of EMI (all the classical music, for example) is now part of Warner Music Group.

Rhapsody · Feb 16, 2017

rbbert said:
Much of EMI (all the classical music, for example) is now part of Warner Music Group.

Well we are all set then with both Warner and UMG

still-one · Feb 16, 2017

rvisinta said:
Well we are all set then with both Warner and UMG

The foot dragger will be Sony. If they were on board between the three virtually everything is covered.

Rhapsody · Feb 16, 2017

still-one said:
The foot dragger will be Sony. If they were on board between the three virtually everything is covered.

Hi Jim, like they say 2 out of 3 ain't bad

I'm just really excited that it's not just Warner now. I have some specific groups that I listen to on Tidal that are on Tidal and are on the Capitol label.....now there is a chance that down the road they will become available via MQA on Tidal.

rbbert · Feb 16, 2017

still-one said:
The foot dragger will be Sony. If they were on board between the three virtually everything is covered.

Except for the many smaller labels which have nearly all the really good sounding albums currently being released, and a very disproportionate (to their market share) amount of the worthwhile new music releases as well

still-one · Feb 16, 2017

rbbert said:
Except for the many smaller labels which have nearly all the really good sounding albums currently being released, and a very disproportionate (to their market share) amount of the worthwhile new music releases as well

I disagree with your position. I guess our definition of worthwhile is disparate.

rbbert · Feb 16, 2017

still-one said:
I disagree with your position. I guess our definition of worthwhile is disparate.

Could be. Hard to argue, though, that the sound quality of many releases on labels like Channel Classics, Acoustic Disc, Challenge Classics, Blue Coast Records, Chesky, etc. isn't top-notch. And considering that the market share of all these independent labels together is about 2%, I'm a little surprised that you feel their worthwhile music isn't more than that in the vast sea of new releases. If one's tastes run only to pop/rock (including country), though, that could explain it, since the indies almost all concentrate on other genres.

bmoura · Feb 18, 2017

microstrip said:
Does any one have technical details on the MQA encoder? What bit rates and formats (DSD?) are accepted as sources for producing MQA files?

MQA is designed to reduce the size of PCM files to "CD Quality" (16 bit, 44k) and MP3 Quality size using encoding which includes lossy compression and pre-distortion techniques, among others.
Not designed for DSD.

rbbert · Feb 18, 2017

bmoura said:
MQA is designed to reduce the size of PCM files to "CD Quality" (16 bit, 44k) and MP3 Quality size using encoding which includes lossy compression and pre-distortion techniques, among others.
Not designed for DSD.

Actually, the MQA files being distributed are compressed 24/48, which can be close to the size of uncompressed CD. MQA can also make 24/96 files, which can encode 24/192 losslessly or close to it, but that's not what is being done currently.

bmoura · Feb 18, 2017

rbbert said:
Actually, the MQA files being distributed are compressed 24/48, which can be close to the size of uncompressed CD. MQA can also make 24/96 files, which can encode 24/192 losslessly or close to it, but that's not what is being done currently.

From my listening to MQA, you are better off with the WAV and FLAC editions of the music than what happens to the music after MQA processing.

Will MQA drive hdtracks, acoustic sounds, and other hirez sites out of business?

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