Why do heavy, well-braced Magicos and Giant Wilsons benefit from MPOD & Stillpoint Footers?

caesar

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These well-marketed, very heavy speakers, are supposed to have some of the best engineering out there (success breeds success). Yet Magico is peddling the MPODs and StillPoints seems to have found a niche with Wilson owners. What's up with that?

In the case of Wilson, is there a deficiency, or is stillpoints trying to reach the "detail lover" segment?

In the case of Magico, they can sell a bunch of MPODs to guys who have already paid $60K+ for their speakers, and the price of the MPODs can be half or more of their S1 speakers. Why couldn't they do it right the first time? Is this all about upselling to the consumer?

Or do these products help resolve problems with design flaws that big speakers have?
 

Folsom

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I'm sure with Magico it was about development of them, not the end product value in production (obviously they could be WAY cheaper if that were the case). It may have taken a long time to get there too.

The footers are the only point where the speaker touches the room, so they could be somewhat vital. It makes you wonder if the stiffness of the cabinets creates the need for high quality footers. While stiff will fight absorbing sound waves, and will low the frequency when it does, if you push on it from one side that energy transfers to the other more effectively; and that's what can happen at the foot. Just a thought... the reality with a lot of this stuff is if it works it works.
 

caesar

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From all reports I have read here about Magicos, people like them and consider these footers a genuine improvement. Which begs the question, why not wasn't this spotted earlier in the R&D cycle.

But the stillpoints story is different - sometimes it works, sometimes it's "faux detail".
 

Folsom

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Would Magico just be launching their company if they weren't releasing Mpods until now? I expect any company to grow and mature. And in audio it's hard to do-it-all, all at once. For example if I could I'd develop every last thing I could for my electronics, to the point where it'd be advantageous for me to release a turntable, DAC, and speakers just so I knew the release of an amplifier wouldn't be stifled by matching with lower quality pieces, but will that be an option? I'm sure you see the challenge, you can only do so much.

In the case of Magico I think the Mpods may have been in development for awhile now, consider that the shape works with all their speakers. The use is seamless, and they're a bit different in shape than other footers.

This isn't the first company where I've had similar thoughts to yours, why wasn't this done from the start? Well once you start trying to make stuff it becomes obvious, there's only so much time we're on the planet, and time is money.
 

Elberoth

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In the case of Magico, they can sell a bunch of MPODs to guys who have already paid $60K+ for their speakers, and the price of the MPODs can be half or more of their S1 speakers. Why couldn't they do it right the first time? Is this all about upselling to the consumer?

Yes they can and they will. M-PODs will be a standard feature on the M3 (maybe they already are - you would need to ask Magico about the exact timing) and the price will be adjusted accordingly.
 

rockitman

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The way I understand it for my Wilson's...spikes allows two-way transmission of vibration which could create a vibration feedback loop that may impinge on the ultimate sound quality of the speakers. Stillpoints break that loop. They allow vibration created by the speaker to drain and not allow it back with other vibrations coming from the floor back into the speaker. The floor material type may impact this. I use them on a concrete foundation floor with medium pile carpeting over the concrete. YMMV.
 

still-one

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I tried Stillpoints under my X2's and I thought it sounded good. I removed them a couple of weeks later and it sounded better. They won't be going back under them.
 

bonzo75

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Kingsrule

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In Magico's case the MPods were developed from the research of the QPods.

From what I've been told by Magico and others, they work on a suspended floor, which many of us have. I have never heard a Stillpoint or similar work under anything on a suspended floor.

The MPods eliminate speaker to floor interaction. The rest decouple which IMO don't work
 

Elberoth

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In Magico's case the MPods were developed from the research of the QPods.

From what I've been told by Magico and others, they work on a suspended floor, which many of us have. I have never heard a Stillpoint or similar work under anything on a suspended floor.

The MPods eliminate speaker to floor interaction. The rest decouple which IMO don't work

I wonder if they will work on my concrete floor.
 

still-one

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I wonder if they will work on my concrete floor.

Stilpoints did not work on my lower level concrete floor. Mot sure about the Magic units for yours.
 

the sound of Tao

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Jul 18, 2014
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These well-marketed, very heavy speakers, are supposed to have some of the best engineering out there (success breeds success). Yet Magico is peddling the MPODs and StillPoints seems to have found a niche with Wilson owners. What's up with that?

In the case of Wilson, is there a deficiency, or is stillpoints trying to reach the "detail lover" segment?

In the case of Magico, they can sell a bunch of MPODs to guys who have already paid $60K+ for their speakers, and the price of the MPODs can be half or more of their S1 speakers. Why couldn't they do it right the first time? Is this all about upselling to the consumer?

Or do these products help resolve problems with design flaws that big speakers have?

Maybe the consequence of constantly improving resolution is that it makes the little things ever more critical. The more revealing the speaker the greater the levels of tweakability.

Also part of what these isolation footers deliver is not just about improving the speaker's performance but also really about minimising resonances from the speakers feeding back into the system's upstream components.
 

microstrip

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(...) In the case of Wilson, is there a deficiency, or is stillpoints trying to reach the "detail lover" segment?
(...)

As far as I have read Wilson has now sold more than 600 Alexandria pairs of speakers. Do yo think that we will ever have data enough to support any of your points?

Most of the time tweaks can only be validated by experience and for a particular case. Different does not equate better most of the time.

The best tweak I would need now for the ARC REF150SE is a time machine :rolleyes: - as it approaches the 100 hours playback it starts sounding sterile.
 

BruceD

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Stilpoints did not work on my lower level concrete floor. Mot sure about the Magic units for yours.

I agree also--I removed the Stillpoints from under my SFGuarneri's --Concrete Floor--then the sound opened up with the original warmth of the Speaker which was missing ala Stillpoint Placement

I must admit I persevered with the lauded Stillpoints under Speakers/ Amps /TT/ CD Player--

the sound I found became a tad fatiguing with a little too much hardness that crept into the Playback --yep I slide them all under testing placement /etc---unfortunately upon removing the Points the sonics became smoother and warmer

YVMV and I realise they are fine products I recommend one to audition carefully they are not chump change!

But just did not work for me:(

BruceD
 

metaphacts

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I tried Stillpoints under my X2's and I thought it sounded good. I removed them a couple of weeks later and it sounded better. They won't be going back under them.

This really is the crux of the matter. Everything makes a difference. Difference does not necessarily mean better. It means different.

We find most Wilson owners agree with you though there are some who like these other add ons. You pay your money and you take your choice.
 

gshelley

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In my system, I found placing Stillpoints under my Alexandria's had tradeoffs. Midrange and treble improved with less grain and better resolution. Trade off was with the bass performance which lost leading edge transient snap and became slightly softer overall.

I moved the Stillpoints to my amps where they replaced Grand Prix amp stands. This was a nice improvement and actually improved bass performance (depth and resolution) while also improving sound stage depth, midrange and treble.
 

DaveC

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The reason for footers is to keep the vibration of the speaker cabinet out of the floor, where it can form feedback loops and resonate all sorts of stuff in your house, especially at high SPLs. Of course it does nothing about airborne vibration, which is also a major factor, but the floor is too, the proportions depending on the speaker.

IMO, speaker manufacturers have been blind to the issue and I think it's ridiculous that speakers don't come with footers that isolate them from the floor in a way the designer is happy with. In my speaker it's a major design consideration, I have both footers that isolate as well as the base of the speaker made out of a 5-layer aluminum CLD sandwich.

The results for me have been increased clarity of the bass through the midrange, a more holographic soundstage, and much less of the house singing along with the music (resonances).

The brand I'm partnering with will be IsoAcoustics, I've had great results with their stands and they now have a new line of footers out, the Gaia series. Well worth checking out...
 

LL21

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I have had great experiences with isolation for the entire system, including the speakers and sub. All of them have a different isolation "solution" which involves a kind of 'sandwich'...isolation underneath and mass damping on top.

As for why ANY speaker benefits from tweaks is a simple answer for me. The existing products mentioned in the OP are EXCELLENT and enjoy excellent isolation. The point of any 'add on' product is that it has to be designed to be better than what it aims to replace...and if there is one thing about tech, its that we can always continue to improve and progress with good design, hard work and investment.

It does not always happen...some prefer their wilsons without. Some with. Regardless, the Stillpoints do work in many instances, but even they can be improved, and the Magico MPods too. And no doubt someone will...
 

garylkoh

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Sep 6, 2010
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The reason for footers is to keep the vibration of the speaker cabinet out of the floor, where it can form feedback loops and resonate all sorts of stuff in your house, especially at high SPLs. Of course it does nothing about airborne vibration, which is also a major factor, but the floor is too, the proportions depending on the speaker.

IMO, speaker manufacturers have be

My speakers have come with their own suspension system ever since I took over design.

Here's what I wrote about coupling/decoupling on What's Best Forum years ago:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...ing-with-particular-reference-to-loudspeakers
 

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