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High end Munich 2017
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+1
IMO, placing a horn based system in a room with plenty of glass and other material that will tend to vibrate is not in any way a great idea ( Can we say the vast majority of rooms at Munich). However, it would seem that right now, in our hobby, horns are in vogue. Personally, you couldn't give me a horn at any price...and I have heard most all of them out there. OTOH, like a previous poster posted, IF i was in the market for a good PA system, well horns would be my #1 choice.LOL
+1
IMO, placing a horn based system in a room with plenty of glass and other material that will tend to vibrate is not in any way a great idea ( Can we say the vast majority of rooms at Munich). However, it would seem that right now, in our hobby, horns are in vogue. Personally, you couldn't give me a horn at any price...and I have heard most all of them out there. OTOH, like a previous poster posted, IF i was in the market for a good PA system, well horns would be my #1 choice.LOL
I heard great horns at AXPONA:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...ght-BorderPatrol-Triode-Wire-Labs-Volti-Audio
but at this point, after some more system improvements, I have little interest anymore in pursuing horn speakers. In terms of effortless dynamics and body of sound I am now at, or almost at, the level that I heard there (depending on the kind of music), and I think some further system tweaking may bring me very close to it, on all musical material, with just my monitor/sub combo.
I guess my dream speaker is now still, or again, from the same company where I have my current speakers from, Reference 3A. It's their flagship monitor, the Reflector:
http://www.reference3a.com/reflector.html
These should be able to do all the tricks that those horns could do, without any sonic reservations, and add more coherence, finesse and resolution on top of it. Sure, unlike horns such speakers can't play at 110 or 120 dB, but I don't want to kill my ears either. After all, I want to still be able to enjoy my system also in 25 to 30 years if I live that long. I follow NIOSH recommendations, and short orchestral peaks at 95 dBa (just under 100 dB) are more than plenty loud for daily listening. And with monitors I don't have to worry if the speakers can properly fit in my room (those horns were relatively small though).
Al, over the course of my audio career, I've heard horns on many occasions
Some have made me run for the hills, some have been truly mesmerising
I've also now heard well set up Apogees which have turned my audio expectations upside down
But most happily my new room and pwr grid seems like a perfect lock for my Zu Def 4s, and mods to them, synergy w SETs, and room suitability, means all impulse driving me to look for the next best thing is gone
I wouldn't say no to a nice pr of Duettas or Trios/Basshorns, but not going to lose any sleep over them either
We seem to be where we want to be
Some have made me run for the hills, some have been truly mesmerising
I've also now heard well set up Apogees which have turned my audio expectations upside down
But most happily my new room and pwr grid seems like a perfect lock for my Zu Def 4s, and mods to them, synergy w SETs, and room suitability, means all impulse driving me to look for the next best thing is gone
I wouldn't say no to a nice pr of Duettas or Trios/Basshorns, but not going to lose any sleep over them either
We seem to be where we want to be
Why does that answer not surprise me????
Oh I know, because your a dealer of other brands
Thanks Alex
On a different note inbetween some of these personal opinions: did I miss Leo Yeh's photo report this year or was he really not there this time?
Leif,
What does being a dealer have to do with anything? Steve asked a question, I answered. I believe he knows I can be trusted with an honest answer. You, who doesn't know me at all, apparently think otherwise. Shame, really.
And for the record, I don't carry a single product that was in one of the best rooms in there, the Zellaton room. And the fact I don't sell Aries Cerat didn't stop me from enjoying their room/booth either. I'm a dealer for Avantgarde, and I can be critical of their presentation.
If you're here to shill your product, I'm not. I've been here long before I was even a dealer, and people know that. Shame again that you don't.
Alex
What does being a dealer have to do with anything? Steve asked a question, I answered. I believe he knows I can be trusted with an honest answer. You, who doesn't know me at all, apparently think otherwise. Shame, really.
And for the record, I don't carry a single product that was in one of the best rooms in there, the Zellaton room. And the fact I don't sell Aries Cerat didn't stop me from enjoying their room/booth either. I'm a dealer for Avantgarde, and I can be critical of their presentation.
If you're here to shill your product, I'm not. I've been here long before I was even a dealer, and people know that. Shame again that you don't.
Alex
I applaud you for this spot-on answer, Alex. I don't understand why a negative opinion seems automatically associated with ulterior motives these days. It seems almost as if some people think that the 'established' High-End needs to be treated as a Sacred Cow, and woe to you if you don't.
I cannot comment on the sound in that room in Munich, but I heard the Von Schweikert room at AXPONA and I was not smitten by the sound either, even though it had some positive aspects to it. However, I would never conclude that therefore the products aren't any good. If the sound at a show is great, then the system obviously must be great. If the sound is not that great, it can have a number of reasons, so it is best to withhold judgment until heard in a well set-up home system.
We had a whole long thread a few years ago on the fact that at shows the sound is often not that good, and the reasons why that might be -- starting with the quality of AC power available.
Good on you and kudos for being honest--I must admit to be surprised at Leif's outburst--I had grown to respect him and his views.
Perceived animosity between dealers is something WBF has successfully avoided in my Site time here.
BruceD
Hi mate, he was there on Friday, a day before I was, and was giving me reports, I asked him specifically about the AC room as well
And BTW, you're right, the music often stinks at shows. Why can't they play something challenging, something dynamic and vivid?
The BorderPatrol/Triode Wire Labs/Volit horns room that I reported on had excellent music choices, by the way. Electrifying sound, electrifying music.
+1
IMO, placing a horn based system in a room with plenty of glass and other material that will tend to vibrate is not in any way a great idea ( Can we say the vast majority of rooms at Munich). However, it would seem that right now, in our hobby, horns are in vogue. Personally, you couldn't give me a horn at any price...and I have heard most all of them out there. OTOH, like a previous poster posted, IF i was in the market for a good PA system, well horns would be my #1 choice.LOL
Which have you heard of trio with bass horns, tune audio Anima, horns universum, there are many bespokes, and each western electric is different. There is more difference between horns than between horns and cones
I have heard the WE's, the Trios with Bass horns and even the vaunted Triolons? Many others that I cannot even recall now. None...none did anything for me at all. Several of the most highly thought after models couldn't get away from the dreaded 'clasped hands' sound...others couldn't portray depth of image,or had the shrill and fake sounding treble that is prevalent with this design. Dynamics, I will give you, are a horns strength...but music reproduction isn't all about dynamics! Extreme volume are also a horns strength, but who cares about this?? Unless you are trying to fill a big hall...which is why I would opt for horns all day long as my PA.
While it may be true to say that is more difference between horns, IME they all have a certain 'house' sound, and to my ears that sound just isn't the sound of the Real...or even close to it. YMMV.
It wasn't too long ago that a manufacturer thought I had the temerity to call his room as I heard it...and it didn't impress me at all!
Are you saying that because Alex is a dealer, he cannot post it as he hears it....just like the manufacturer claimed about me! I happen to believe that Alex had every right to post what he did and if he wasn't impressed, then so be it. You may not like his opinion, but in my books, that's just too bad! No need to fling insinuations!!
What would allow you, as a manufacturers rep, to believe that a competing dealer or manufacturer cannot post an honest opinion and have the right to state same...even if it is a negative opinion? How do you think I now feel about the manufacturer who did something similar to me...do you think that made any brownie points for me with them, lol!
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I think it will always be a sensitive topic and this is coming from a not so very sensitive guy. Everyone is well aware of the soaring prices of hifi, but there are also soaring prices of attending shows like Munich especially. Given the time money and effort to make a room sound as good as someone who has all the advantages of a years worth of fine tuning is no easy feat. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. I find one showing was excellent and another it was not the case. You will notice the same manufacturer is not always awarded the best or even in the top at one show and top of the line at another with the same gear. Nature of the beast.
So when someone wants to criticise a negatively room it will always equates to a very large investment lost in both money and time to that individual. Some deal with this better than others.
Post like "that room is an Epic fail" from User 211 is fine so long as their is room to clarify what he found to be so epically failed about the presentation. This helps both the community understand the viewpoint of the individual and circumstances pertaining to that conclusion. In other words "helpful".
I shrug such silly comments off, but other like Lief may hit the hot button. I did not personally find Alex giving such a harsh feedback just his own opinion in general.
Out of 5 there will be one who will always love it, one who will always hate it, and three which is whom we have to convince. Let the haters have their two cents I say. Free country and all that...
Where did I "trash" anything? I mean, I posted my favorable impressions of the rooms I heard and left a positive impression. That was my report.
Then Steve proceeds to ask about a specific room, and I gave my impressions. How is that "trashing" exactly? We have a fellow here calling a room an "epic fail", yet because I found another room "unimpressive", that becomes "trashing"? Really?
Hieukm, you don't know me. I've been a dealer for just 3 years, with many more years before that in this hobby as just an audiophile. If I've "trashed" other brands, it most likely was before I was even a dealer, because I did have an opinion on stuff, like most of you BTW, and I still do.
Then Steve proceeds to ask about a specific room, and I gave my impressions. How is that "trashing" exactly? We have a fellow here calling a room an "epic fail", yet because I found another room "unimpressive", that becomes "trashing"? Really?
Hieukm, you don't know me. I've been a dealer for just 3 years, with many more years before that in this hobby as just an audiophile. If I've "trashed" other brands, it most likely was before I was even a dealer, because I did have an opinion on stuff, like most of you BTW, and I still do.
You are the dealer who specifically said Soulution bass sound like card board and Dartzeel is much superior. You could have said Soulution sounds great but Dartzeel sounds better.
You are the dealer who specifically said Soulution bass sound like card board and Dartzeel is much superior. You could have said Soulution sounds great but Dartzeel sounds better.
Leif outburst probably because you were pushing YG/EA/AG when i was asking about Cessaro and VSs.
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