Tube preamp for low gain A class solid state - need recommendations

Tbzc · Jan 21, 2017

Hi everbody,

I would kindly ask you to help me to find the best (tube) preamp for my msb m204 monoblocks, which have a rather low gain of 18db (low setting=best soundwise).

I have tried ayon spheris iii and thrax dionysis but had rather mixed results: the drive, the presence and the body of the music has been somehow missing. I had better results with Beyond frontiers audio preamp (cca 25db gain) but the noise was high and the control was missing with complex music.

Interesting, when I connect my cdp Meridian 808.5 directly to msbs, the drive is quite good, but I am missing the warmth and the body of the tubes.

Speakers are Tad ref one.

So, I kindly ask you to recommend me a preamp which:
- is able to drive low gain A class power ampa
- is preferably tube (or hybrid) based
- has low output impendance
- is musical, organic (not sterile)

Thanks in advance.

jfrech · Jan 21, 2017

Tbzc said:
Hi everbody,

I would kindly ask you to help me to find the best (tube) preamp for my msb m204 monoblocks, which have a rather low gain of 18db (low setting=best soundwise).

I have tried ayon spheris iii and thrax dionysis but had rather mixed results: the drive, the presence and the body of the music has been somehow missing. I had better results with Beyond frontiers audio preamp (cca 25db gain) but the noise was high and the control was missing with complex music.

Interesting, when I connect my cdp Meridian 808.5 directly to msbs, the drive is quite good, but I am missing the warmth and the body of the tubes.

Speakers are Tad ref one.

So, I kindly ask you to recommend me a preamp which:
- is able to drive low gain A class power ampa
- is preferably tube (or hybrid) based
- has low output impendance
- is musical, organic (not sterile)

Thanks in advance.

My favorite 2 preamps (that I've heard in my system) are the Koda K10 and the Nagra Classic pre. The Koda is low gain (+6db) so might be a match issue on that point. The Nagra Classic is a EXCELLENT preamp (+12db) and you might consider the balancing input and output transformers...Nagra uses tubes and very low output impedance (6ohm). It has a few options, the balancing transformers, the VFS (Vibration Free System) and a external power supply (MPS). I heard it in my system will all the options. It's quite special.

You have a choices here, I am sure others will chime in with other considerations...

Congrats on your 2nd post here-welcome !

bonzo75 · Jan 21, 2017

The Nagra has a zero gain and a +12 db switch?

LL21 · Jan 21, 2017

Perhaps the CJ GAT (Series 2)?

jfrech · Jan 21, 2017

bonzo75 said:
The Nagra has a zero gain and a +12 db switch?

It's +12db, but with a option to cut that to 0db for matching purposes I presume. When I had it in my system, I preferred the +12db setting...

Tbzc · Jan 21, 2017

jfrech - thank you for recommendations and kind words

ll21 - thanks, cj gat is on my radar, but it misses xlr outputs. Msb monoblocks only have xlr input for lower gain.

My understanding is that the preamp I am seeking for needs at least 20db gain and xlr outputs

LL21 · Jan 21, 2017

Tbzc said:
jfrech - thank you for recommendations and kind words

ll21 - thanks, cj gat is on my radar, but it misses xlr outputs. Msb monoblocks only have xlr input for lower gain.

My understanding is that the preamp I am seeking for needs at least 20db gain and xlr outputs

Hi Tbzc,

FWIW, i use the CJ GAT with my Gryphon Colosseum (which is also XLR only), and i cannot think of a preamp i prefer. 26db gain and less than 100ohm output impedance if that is something you are focusing on. I basically have neutrik adaptors RCA-XLR into the Gryphon.

jfrech · Jan 21, 2017

LL21 said:
Hi Tbzc,

FWIW, i use the CJ GAT with my Gryphon Colosseum (which is also XLR only), and i cannot think of a preamp i prefer. 26db gain and less than 100ohm output impedance if that is something you are focusing on. I basically have neutrik adaptors RCA-XLR into the Gryphon.

Lloyd has a point here...I was always a 100% balanced guy. Fully balanced from cartridge to (din to xlr cables) to speakers. Ditto on digital. Then one day my dealer brought a single ended phono stage by. Ran it via RCA to XLR adapters into my BAT VK51SE (at the time) fully balanced pre (didn't even have a RCA connector). Obviously several factors are a play here...but balanced doesn't always mean better. Does not surprise me what Lloyd is saying about his CJ pre into his Gryphon amp...

That CJ is one of the worlds great preamps...

morricab · Jan 24, 2017

Tbzc said:
Hi everbody,

I would kindly ask you to help me to find the best (tube) preamp for my msb m204 monoblocks, which have a rather low gain of 18db (low setting=best soundwise).

I have tried ayon spheris iii and thrax dionysis but had rather mixed results: the drive, the presence and the body of the music has been somehow missing. I had better results with Beyond frontiers audio preamp (cca 25db gain) but the noise was high and the control was missing with complex music.

Interesting, when I connect my cdp Meridian 808.5 directly to msbs, the drive is quite good, but I am missing the warmth and the body of the tubes.

Speakers are Tad ref one.

So, I kindly ask you to recommend me a preamp which:
- is able to drive low gain A class power ampa
- is preferably tube (or hybrid) based
- has low output impendance
- is musical, organic (not sterile)

Thanks in advance.

Give NAT a try. My Plasma has a big sound with huge dynamics and nice tone and presence. They don't make this model anymore but try one of their newer models. The Kondo G70 would also be an interesting preamp to look into...

morricab · Jan 24, 2017

morricab said:
Give NAT a try. My Plasma has a big sound with huge dynamics and nice tone and presence. They don't make this model anymore but try one of their newer models. The Kondo G70 would also be an interesting preamp to look into...

Oh, I forgot, definitely give Aries Cerat a try! They might be the best out there.

KeithR · Jan 24, 2017

with 40kohms using the low balanced setting, you shouldn't have a problem with most tube preamps from an impedance matching perspective. I'm not sure many preamps have 20db+ gain though which is super high.

I have been looking into tube preamps for fun, but don't find many interesting ones. I concur with JFrech that I would hunt down a Nagra Classic as my first audition.

JackD201 · Jan 24, 2017

http://valvet.de/?p=2773

Class A ZNFB amps are what they are built for.

rblnr · Jan 25, 2017

JackD201 said:
http://valvet.de/?p=2773

Class A ZNFB amps are what they are built for.

I second this rec. Great preamp that as noted is made to work with SS Class A amps like yours.

flyer · Jan 25, 2017

The Aries Cerat Incito or Impera preamps are an excellent match for lower gain amps + they tick all the boxes you mention.

I am not sure about the Incito but certainly the Impera has got a Transformer-coupled Volume Control which typically has very little attenuation. In combination with its 17dB gain, it drives low gain amps very well.

The explanation being that Aries Cerat's own Concero amps are very low gain themselves so they can do with the extra drive.

JackD201 · Jan 25, 2017

rblnr said:
I second this rec. Great preamp that as noted is made to work with SS Class A amps like yours.

Got turned on to it through your excellent review on PFO Bob.

rockitman · Jan 25, 2017

Lamm LL1 Sig.

DaveyF · Jan 25, 2017

Try the CAT Renaissance Black path or the CAT Legend. Both can be now had with balanced outputs ( although I'm not sure that Ken thinks that highly of balanced?? LOL).

rblnr · Jan 25, 2017

JackD201 said:
Got turned on to it through your excellent review on PFO Bob.

Thx Jack!

Tube preamp for low gain A class solid state - need recommendations

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