An interesting/unique take on 4-channel stereo

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Any and all opinions wanted on this one
I've just spent the exhorbitant :rolleyes: sum of £99 on the Naim AV1 processor, a long-discontinued unit released during the hey day of Dolby Pro Logic (1996-98, rrp at the time £1700)
It was Naim's first foray into surround sound, and uniquely at the time was targeted at music lovers as well as home cinema (other surround sound at the time was strictly for the popcorn and Coke/Pepsi brigade)
It's concept was to leave the front two channels unaffected (no centre channel, no matrix processing of front soundfield at all), take the stereo signal from the aux out of the preamp to the AV1 which then applied a fixed delay of 10, 12 or 15ms, Hafler processing, switch R and L signals around, which then via a seperate power amp would be fed to a pair of rear full range speakers, effectively 4.0 stereo
The idea, again against the grain, was not for an all bells and whistles effects laden sound, but a subtle evocation of soundfield, eliciting a more gentle immersiveness, esp suited to music listening
Unfortunately, Naim misfired on this one, the home cinema crowd never bought it, they couldn't get many Naim customers to buy it, and other audiophiles shunned it completely
It led to the AV2 which was firmly aimed at home cinema, and was a relative success
My idea would be to use it as intended, to enhance ambience in the room, while leaving the front soundstage totally unmolested
My room is certainly big enough to entertain full range spkrs behind me, I have 15' to play with

So, thoughts on this concept, whether it's a goer and worth investigating further
 

Kal Rubinson

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It's concept was to leave the front two channels unaffected (no centre channel, no matrix processing of front soundfield at all), take the stereo signal from the aux out of the preamp to the AV1 which then applied a fixed delay of 10, 12 or 15ms, Hafler processing, switch R and L signals around, which then via a seperate power amp would be fed to a pair of rear full range speakers, effectively 4.0 stereo
Such an operation is simple to set up in JRiver for stereo playback with enhancement.

My idea would be to use it as intended, to enhance ambience in the room, while leaving the front soundstage totally unmolested.....................................................

So, thoughts on this concept, whether it's a goer and worth investigating further
IMHO, it is one of many concepts to "enhance ambiance" which have come and gone but, if it floats your boat (as TriField did for me for a while), go for it and let us know. OTOH, I have always come back to good, straight stereo for my stereo listening since all these manipulations disappoint in comparison to real multichannel.
 

spiritofmusic

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So Kal, what did Trifield bring to the party (without comparing to today's mch w the benefit of hindsight)?
 

bonzo75

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Such an operation is simple to set up in JRiver for stereo playback with enhancement.

IMHO, it is one of many concepts to "enhance ambiance" which have come and gone but, if it floats your boat (as TriField did for me for a while), go for it and let us know. OTOH, I have always come back to good, straight stereo for my stereo listening since all these manipulations disappoint in comparison to real multichannel.

Real MCH almost impossible to beat for MCH classical SACDs - IMO only some of the extreme systems with Uber speakers that cannot be practically multichanneled (big Apogees, big horns), or extreme care set ups like Mike's beat them. Especially if the system is digital only and lacks good vinyl tone. But for the rest 99.5%, MCH is actually the easy way to go, with 5 standamounts, oppo, and a processor. It is boring though because then you are mostly spinning SACDs rather than swapping

20170120_152526.jpg
 

RogerD

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Try it....if setup correctly you might like it. If your goal is to hear more ambience information then this system should fill your need. Be aware that if it works correctly some recordings will not be effected much. The circuit works really well on live recordings and recordings that are acoustic or are recorded in large studios and halls. My circuit is passive and I have used it for years. The circuit is also effected by how transparent your preamp will be. The best performance in my system was when I used a nuvistor preamp,but either a valve or SS preamp does fine. I use a pair of outboard and inboard speakers that I collected over the years,for the intended purpose they work well. They are driven be a seperate amplifier with output controls,I also use a volume control switch for the center pair.

image_4744.jpg
 

Kal Rubinson

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Real MCH almost impossible to beat for MCH classical SACDs - IMO only some of the extreme systems with Uber speakers that cannot be practically multichanneled (big Apogees, big horns), or extreme care set ups like Mike's beat them. Especially if the system is digital only and lacks good vinyl tone. But for the rest 99.5%, MCH is actually the easy way to go, with 5 standamounts, oppo, and a processor. It is boring though because then you are mostly spinning SACDs rather than swapping
I do not understand your last sentence.
 

NorthStar

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Real MCH almost impossible to beat for MCH classical SACDs - IMO only some of the extreme systems with Uber speakers that cannot be practically multichanneled (big Apogees, big horns), or extreme care set ups like Mike's beat them. Especially if the system is digital only and lacks good vinyl tone. But for the rest 99.5%, MCH is actually the easy way to go, with 5 standamounts, oppo, and a processor.
It is boring though because then you are mostly spinning SACDs rather than swapping.

View attachment 30720

I do not understand your last sentence.

Taking part in an exchange of. Eg.; getting up, flipping sides, removing the dust with a vinyl brush impregnated of cleaning liquid, and cleaning up the goo accumulated on the stylus with a stylus brush and stylus liquid. ...When playing record LPs. I think.
 

16hz lover

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Aug 2, 2013
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I highly enjoy exactly what you are considering doing, been there. done that, was one of the most enjoyable systems I have had.
 

spiritofmusic

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16Hz, what was your particular system/configuration?
 

16hz lover

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16Hz, what was your particular system/configuration?

Sony 777ES player, Classe CP-35 preamp, Martin Logan Request main speakers running full range(Crown Macro Reference), Hartley 24" subwoofer mounted in ceiling IB driven by separate amp below 40hz,
Rear speakers Clements RT-7's driven full range with phased reversed on their own amp (Adcom 555),with volume controls added at speakers, to provide rear ambience.
16x28 foot room. Wish I still had it. Chasing the audiophile rabbit was a big mistake I will always regret.:( .......palpable midrange masturbation , I finally left all that behind.
 
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Kal Rubinson

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Taking part in an exchange of. Eg.; getting up, flipping sides, removing the dust with a vinyl brush impregnated of cleaning liquid, and cleaning up the goo accumulated on the stylus with a stylus brush and stylus liquid. ...When playing record LPs. I think.
Ah. I am grateful that such is in my discarded past.
 

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