Clio 11 , FW 01 interface install problems ,is there a plug and play loudspeaker measurmentsystem?

andromedaaudio

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Hello id like to give my problems /expirience here with various loudspeakermeasurement programs hardware .

Tried kirchner http://www.kirchner-elektronik.de/ atb pc
well this actually worked , it had a audiocard correction program within and worked using pink noise on a dvd which one then had to measure , worked but didnt have external hardware kind of primitive , cheopo

secondly i bought the kirchner 801 maesurment system , it has hardware with a signal generator , could nt get it to work ever since , seems to me like a unfinished product thrown into the market but not plug and play another 600 euro waisted

Finally thinking all my problems would be over i bought the Clio 11 FW 01 software/ hardware .
First of all it needs a firewire 400 /1394 connection to work properly , remind you in the past 5 years at least nothing that is made has that connection , so youre looking at buying an old laptop to get it to work any way , or a desktop[ with an cardslot which accepts a extra firewire 400 card connection .

After receiving the clio system i then had to buy an old secondhand HP computer , with a fire wire connection , had it working a while , not very reliable though , the relais wouldnt come in half of the time so i had to restart a lot .
After leaving the system unused for half a year it wouldnt restart and kept giving me hardware not found error code 16 , so i sent it back to audiomatica .
They said the digital interface was broken ( dont know how that happened i was always extremely carefull ) and " repaired it " without cost .
Shipping cost all on me off course .

Got it back in september started with another Woofersystem this year and i wanted to measure , nothing same problem, hard ware not found error code 16 .
Wrote them an email and they basically said it was my fault as i was using a firewire 400 / usb connnector going into the desktop computer (which is true usb is not compatible with fire wire 400 but damage seems highly unlikely from the people i asked ), that was this time i had nt used this before , before i only used the HP with firewire 400 connection ??
tried it on the old firewire equipped HP and got the same message hard ware not found error code 16 .
Emailed back to clio and basically got an answer that there is no install problem despite the internet complaints they did ask me some info of the old computer used but hey im not a computer nerd i want something plug and play , about 3000 of investment in loudspeakermeasurement gear and still no reliable result , besides the 800 + spent in total on kichner electronic .

2 links full of Clio install problems .

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equipment-tools/218830-direct-competitor-clio-v10-2.html


http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/software-tools/253182-clio-installing-fail.html

Thinking about sending all the gear back to audiomatica Cllio 11 FW 01 extra microphone (for use without phantom power ) vibration meter totalling about 3000 euro , because i cant use it and clio doesnt answer emails .


Think about it before you purchase anything considering loudspeaker measurement gear ,read the internet first.

I wount adverstise any more for a clio pocket system which works on USB but has limited measuring capabilities , and i also read about some install problems see the link .
Asked clio to swap the clio 11 FW 01 for the much cheaper clio pocket USB system but no answer
 
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andromedaaudio

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Well investigated and put it out on the http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equipment-tools/273686-clio-pocket.html
Best option would be it seems is buying a macbook pro or AIR with either thunderbolt 2 or 3 port , both have adapter cables to go firewire 400 .
As clio 11 is running in windows one could then install windows on Bootcamp and go from there .
Other option is buying a second hand dell or something with an expresscard slot and / or firewire port.

or this it has thunderbolt 3 but quit pricey http://shop.lenovo.com/nl/nl/laptops/thinkpad/p-series/p50/

I ll probably do both buy a mac and clio pocket and get something to work either way

A cheap option would be the dayton omni mic system , but that works with a pink noise cd which then has to be played on the audiosystem and measured accordingly , i have no expirience with it , not really suited enough for X over design .
Seems good for setting up speakers though , the people from magico used it to set up the magico S 5 mk 2 .

Listening
After Mackay and Tammam had used the excellent Dayton OmniMic v2 system to position the S5 Mk.IIs in my room and declared themselves content
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/magico-s5-mkii-loudspeaker#fVQQ3fo3TSuCqfgB.99
 
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andromedaaudio

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Went to the biggest direct sale apple store in amsterdam , huge brandstore .

Cheapest portable seems to be a mac book air which has thunderbolt 2 1100 euro , adapter thunderbolt 2 fire wire 800 , adaptercable 800 to 400 to clio FW 01

They advised me against a mac book pro with thunderbolt 3 because it might not work (good ) with fire wire.


Ps those I macs /portables with retina display , absolutely beautifull :)
 
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andromedaaudio

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Bought a macbook pro 2015 model , it has 2 thunderbolt 2 ports , made a windows OS in bootcamp, windows 10 home edition , bought all the cables adapters , usb superdrive from apple .
What you think still cant install (1394) drivers , they will say installed but appear nowhere in device manager .

The US (audiomatica) importer Langston holland of soundscapes has been of great help so far but still no measurments yet , but people are working on it

PS may be amir can help ?? he was high up with microsoft wasn t he ??:confused: :D
 
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andromedaaudio

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Langston has been of great help , turned out the unit is broken again /still broken .
Shipped it to italy again today , with the note all communications / payments go through langston holland (audiomatica us ).
Asked langston to test it /use it before shipment to me
 

pjwd

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Hi andromeda - years ago I fretted over clio and liberty praxis - as clio was only desktop at that stage I went liberty and although it was a buggy system I eventually figured it all out and it worked really well - it became unreliable ( I think the $2.00 electet microphone is one of the problems) and there is no current support so I have been looking again - I have the minidsp Umik but am not confidant in the results - Clio still are super inflexible as you have shown - I am beginning to think a pro microphone preamp, good earthworks mic and Arta may be the go - have you looked at that

cheers,

Phil
 

andromedaaudio

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Yeah read about it off course , but with the support langston gives i have good hopes , it ll be sorted out in the end , he has proof he showed me a vid with a working unit;), he has 2 .
Got to much invested in clio now to let go , i might order also a pocket from langston which is a usb system and usable with apple software.
I have 2 mics , one calibrated rca directly usable on the clio fw and a older one usable with phantom power xlr.

If it works its a perfect small / portable system off course , apple macbook pro and FW 01/ mic which gets its power from the 6 pin firewire/thunderbolt computer, (you do need to amplify the signal coming out of the clio )
I dont like those systems so much in which one has to play pink noise on a cd /dvd and then measure it, although you can off course have accurate results
Only down side is that the pocket doesnt do reverberation.

I ll post the results
 
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Robh3606

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I have a Clio Pocket on a PC and no issues.

Rob:)
 

pjwd

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Rob - do you have an idea of the limitations of the pocket vs the bigger unit - I assume you can do electronic measurements of transfer function of crossovers as well as impedance and drive it with a windows laptop

it does look like a pretty simple unit to use which is pretty handy when you only use it every 6 months and forget all the tricks ....

cheers,

Phil
 

andromedaaudio

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Got it back today from audiomatica , langston holland actually send me an older model dell with fire wire 4 pin connection to try with installed drivers , it started right away and it says now clio fire wire driver installed.
I installed the software and its up and running .
Try to post some reverberation time as well , probably 0,6 - 0,7 sec :eek:
and some impedance measurments
Audiomatica did the repair and shipment for free


DSC05733 by andromeda61, on Flickr
 
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andromedaaudio

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Clio is working perfect.

Today i measured some on axxis responses 1 meter distance , at various smoothfactors , these are the most common used in magazines , but not all state the smoothfactor , you can see how much one could cheat then .
Also different stimuli are used MLS and Logchirp , at 1/2 oct smoothed the XPE stays within +_ 1 db 650 hz - 20 khz a precision sound machine plus really full range :cool:;)

PS under 500 -600 hz you see room ( dependable) modes kicking in xpe impedance - Copy (2) by andromeda61, on Flickr


unsmoothed by andromeda61, on Flickr

1 meter,on axxis by andromeda61, on Flickr

mls stimuli , on axxis 1 meter distance by andromeda61, on Flickr

logchirp stimuli on axxis , 1 meter distance by andromeda61, on Flickr

1 meter,on axxis.gif no 2 by andromeda61, on Flickr
 
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pjwd

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Hi andromeda - funnily enough I decided to jump into the clio FW and audiomatica pointed me to Langston - who is super helpfull as you say , glad to hear you are up and running

Have you tried gating those FR responses - you should be able to get a pretty clean response for tweeter and upper mid

cheers,

Phil
 

andromedaaudio

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No I do measure all kind of distances/ placements in the room , dont need gating for an honest measurement Imo , above lets say 400 hz to be safe , if your re measuring in the middle of the room
My room is 5 meters wide 7,5 m long if placed in the middle 2,5 meters of each wall , you have room for at least a 2 m sound wavelength before a bounce (which is angled as well ) is 170 hz. .
In practice it works good no matter what they say , I ve heard avalons quite a lot in the past they state a anechoic +_ 1 db response .
They sound very bass light in general in room is my experience I ve owned an avatar once , magico the same for some models, there is a lot more to it then just flat anechoic response in a Loudspeaker design.
And even if my speakers had the same anechoic response like an Avalon isis (comparable system size to XPE ) those avalons will never have the overall transient response /clean sound (especially in the bass ), no matter how many. different thickness mdf plates you glue together .

Yep langston is an excellent example of a good distributor / dealer , not simply a " box shover " :D

Ps I mostly use an 1/6 oct smoothed response for design as unsmoothed is indeed not workable , but gating. no I dont use it.
 
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