Is Uber exploiting their drivers?

ack

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Watch this and let's see what you think

 

amirm

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Well, she is off the mark. If she wants to know how much drivers make, the best way is to go and talk to the drivers, not do some internet math.

The first time I took an Uber ride I was shocked that it costs 1/3 of taxi and the driver was most polite and his car near new toyota. I asked him what he thought of Uber and he could not be happier. I have since asked the same question from every Uber driver and I have yet to find any that are not just happy but super happy about their Uber job.

Where is she going wrong? For starters, she thinks someone has bought a car just to be an Uber driver. That is not at all that model. The driver already owns that car. So it is going to depreciate whether he drivers for Uber or not. Yes he puts more miles on it but that would be the only cost, not fully depreciated because of ownership.

Second she says the person would be better off taking a minimum wage job. Really? Has she taken one of those jobs, standing by a cashier at McDonald? Instead you get to ride in your own car, listen to your own music, chat with customers and you make money.

The number 1 benefit I hear from uber drivers is picking up people on the way home or during a break at the job. They are so thankful that they can have that auxiliary income yet be their own boss. If they want to do the driving they do. If they don't, they won't.

There is also another model that I ran into with an Uber. I commented on his car being new and he said it was not his! That Uber had arranged through a car rental company (Enterprise?) to lease him the car and Uber paid for everything! So the car expense was zero. He said he had to driver four days to break even and after that he would make money. Again, he loved it that he could drive a new car for personal use and make this type of money.

That said, I think what Uber is charging is too low. I know I would pay easily more money to have this level of service. But when I mentioned this to every driver I talked to, none of them said, "yeh we need to do that." They were all super happy.

So yeh, if I were looking at the situation without talking to anyone, I too would have their opinion but the reality is not that. Folks are getting part-time jobs while being their own boss. People start their own businesses, work twice as hard and make less than what they do if they took a salary job. That freedom to set your own hours and level of work has a lot of value.

Anyway that is what I know as a happy Uber customer :). They have relieved us from the horrors that was waiting to get a taxi, and riding in stupid dirty, falling apart cars. If their drivers are also happy, then I would be SOB to try to campaign to screw this up.

And oh, when I was at CES due to crowds, my fair was 3X the normal so her averages are not what folks get paid all the time.
 

garylkoh

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I've been a happy Uber user, and I've never met an unhappy Uber driver. I like to talk to the drivers too, because most of them will have something interesting to say, even if I disagree with their opinion. In China, I met one who owns his own retail business but drove at nights to talk to people to sniff out trends. Another picked me up at the international ferry terminal (from the HK International Airport) because of the chance to practice his English.

The few times I used Uber in the US has been the same. From Seattle airport to home, Uber is cheaper than a ride-share Shuttle Express, and I don't have to wait 45 minutes for the van to get to me, and then take a tour of the area hotels dropping off passengers.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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I mostly use Uber when I travel specially in NY and like Gary I never met an unhappy Uber driver nor have I ever had a bad experience with them. This is true for all my friends who use Uber service daily and several times a day, in fact many of them had corporate limo accounts and have given it up in favor of Uber. The complaints Uber drivers have isn't against the company but the city & county officials who come up with stupid regulations to make local cab companies happy. NYC is the pits for this kind of thing!

david

Edit- Always question motives of people like her ;)!
 
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Folsom

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Well, she is off the mark. If she wants to know how much drivers make, the best way is to go and talk to the drivers, not do some internet math.

The first time I took an Uber ride I was shocked that it costs 1/3 of taxi and the driver was most polite and his car near new toyota. I asked him what he thought of Uber and he could not be happier. I have since asked the same question from every Uber driver and I have yet to find any that are not just happy but super happy about their Uber job.

Where is she going wrong? For starters, she thinks someone has bought a car just to be an Uber driver. That is not at all that model. The driver already owns that car. So it is going to depreciate whether he drivers for Uber or not. Yes he puts more miles on it but that would be the only cost, not fully depreciated because of ownership.

Second she says the person would be better off taking a minimum wage job. Really? Has she taken one of those jobs, standing by a cashier at McDonald? Instead you get to ride in your own car, listen to your own music, chat with customers and you make money.

The number 1 benefit I hear from uber drivers is picking up people on the way home or during a break at the job. They are so thankful that they can have that auxiliary income yet be their own boss. If they want to do the driving they do. If they don't, they won't.

There is also another model that I ran into with an Uber. I commented on his car being new and he said it was not his! That Uber had arranged through a car rental company (Enterprise?) to lease him the car and Uber paid for everything! So the car expense was zero. He said he had to driver four days to break even and after that he would make money. Again, he loved it that he could drive a new car for personal use and make this type of money.

That said, I think what Uber is charging is too low. I know I would pay easily more money to have this level of service. But when I mentioned this to every driver I talked to, none of them said, "yeh we need to do that." They were all super happy.

So yeh, if I were looking at the situation without talking to anyone, I too would have their opinion but the reality is not that. Folks are getting part-time jobs while being their own boss. People start their own businesses, work twice as hard and make less than what they do if they took a salary job. That freedom to set your own hours and level of work has a lot of value.

Anyway that is what I know as a happy Uber customer :). They have relieved us from the horrors that was waiting to get a taxi, and riding in stupid dirty, falling apart cars. If their drivers are also happy, then I would be SOB to try to campaign to screw this up.

And oh, when I was at CES due to crowds, my fair was 3X the normal so her averages are not what folks get paid all the time.

Amir, how many times have you had the same Uber driver? I think the whole tax thing might be an interesting factor, as in, how many people continue after tax time?

I can't argue with Uber vs. flipping burgers, but I'd drive for Lyft since they allowing tipping. But it's very interesting because I bet Uber gets more business since people know they don't have to tip. However Uber basically buying a car for you sounds like hell, being trapped into bad wages to pay back a car 4 days a week, for years? That's more like enslavement than being one's own boss.

There's also this situation.... It's a weird company, apparently despite it's size being small since they just manage an app, they needed $1.2 billion to not be assholes.

But you know what the big reality is? You lose money unless you concentrate on surge times. No driver with a brain works unless it's during surge time. At that point, you pay a lot more, and the driver makes something. And they're still barely able to break minimum wage, now. Given cost, time, and taxes not accounted for, that guy's figures for money in, is not good. Honestly, it's a company that's swinging billions and they can't even muster min wage if someone is busy except in surges. They also are dodgy on safety regulation that Taxi's have to follow. I mean, really, if Taxi companies have figured out how to make money for the last 70 years or whatever, while paying their drivers a living wage (yup), you really think Uber can reinvent the wheel? I say it's a scam to enjoy while it lasts.

Don't get me wrong, I use it at times. It works great, but I don't expect it to last without some changes, it will probably have to become more/less almost the same as regular Taxi except it'll be people that can turn on/off being available. As far as happy drivers, sure, I guess, but I'll save that reservation of what I believe to be the final truth when I see the same Uber driver a year after the last time.

I do believe it's the future as far as how we get rides, and it's a better model. The idea of not having a Taxi garage/fleet has some appeal too... but, again, unless we're going to have a slave class of people, it can't remain the same.
 

Ron Resnick

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I agree with Amir, Gary and David.
 

Rodney Gold

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Jan 29, 2014
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My car was written off a few months back. Insurance paid out
I have been using UBER instead of replacing it. (much much cheaper , less stress etc)
all the drivers love it , in a land where unemployment runs at 20% , its a godsend for them
I love it , never had to wait more than 7 minutes for a driver.
Taxis are 3x more expensive here .. their days are numbered ..
 

asiufy

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Another fan here. I've just started using Lyft (at CES/LV), and I tend to actually prefer it to Uber, because the fare is actually pre-calculated. I'm always a little uneasy of using Uber and not knowing how much the fare is going to be... Too many horror stories of crazy high fares due to the "surge pricing"...
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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When we were on holidays in France last year, our Uber driver certainly did not like or respect Uber.

They ripped the heart out of the French taxi industry with a flat Uber fee of 15% and lower fare tarifs.

Once the taxi industry was on its knees, Uber in 2015 increased its fee to 20% and lowered the tarif fare more, which the Uber driver was mightily pissed off. But he had nowhere to go due to the predatory prices Uber used to set up.

I see last month, Uber increased their % fee on drivers fare to 25% and increased fares. In the long run, Uber will do what is best for them, not us or the Uber drivers.


Be careful what you wish for.


http://www.thelocal.fr/20161201/uber-announces-price-rise-in-france
 
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Folsom

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Right, and they are able to out compete by just getting a pile of VC money to float them.

While they're paving the way, they're doing it on the backs of others, and it's not pretty. All of those Taxi jobs where full time jobs, so you have people that lost full time jobs so people could have part time / minimum wage or lower jobs.
 

Gregadd

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It appears to me Uber is an entirely illegal enterprise.
It is Ubers' plan to be driverless in the next five to ten years.
 

jeff1225

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Every business that does not remember that the consumer is their ultimate boss eventually dies. Because taxi's have a monopoly in most cities, they did not feel the need to listen to their consumer. The consumer asked for 3 simple things:

1. A clean cab
2. An app
3. The ability to use credit cards

The ride sharing solution is genius because it took advantage of existing laws. Adam Smith would be proud.

Because taxi's have a monopoly in most cities, they did not feel the need to listen to their consumer.
 

Folsom

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The consumer asked for 3 simple things:

1. A clean cab
2. An app
3. The ability to use credit cards

Absolutely, that's the future. But Uber....

Is there no end to the irony that they're displacing full time, living wage, jobs with low paying part time work... that supposedly helping those looking for more work but shortly there will be zero drivers?

I have to give them credit that it's pretty ingenious to use the model to fund driverless service development. Imagine if Taxi services just went modern, instead an industry is meeting its death.
 

Gregadd

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Uber is no longer ride sharing. They also have already begun their switch to driverless cars in Arizona.
 

Gregadd

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We are on the verge of a second industrial revolution. We still need customers but no workers.
 

ddk

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Absolutely, that's the future. But Uber....

Is there no end to the irony that they're displacing full time, living wage, jobs with low paying part time work... that supposedly helping those looking for more work but shortly there will be zero drivers?

I have to give them credit that it's pretty ingenious to use the model to fund driverless service development. Imagine if Taxi services just went modern, instead an industry is meeting its death.

Don't see it that way at all nor do I get why you're so down on them, it's giving families additional source of income in these tough times. Uber opened up the market and took it away from the monopolies who had cornered for decades. In cities like NY the medallions are controlled by mafia types dictating price and number of cabs allowed, Uber broke that yolk! Anyway the threat in the future is from autonomous cars not Uber drivers.

david
 

Ron Resnick

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Don't see it that way at all nor do I get why you're so down on them, it's giving families additional source of income in these tough times. Uber opened up the market and took it away from the monopolies who had cornered for decades. In cities like NY the medallions are controlled by mafia types dictating price and number of cabs allowed, Uber broke that yolk! Anyway the threat in the future is from autonomous cars not Uber drivers.

david

+1

very well stated
 

Folsom

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Don't see it that way at all nor do I get why you're so down on them, it's giving families additional source of income in these tough times. Uber opened up the market and took it away from the monopolies who had cornered for decades. In cities like NY the medallions are controlled by mafia types dictating price and number of cabs allowed, Uber broke that yolk! Anyway the threat in the future is from autonomous cars not Uber drivers.

david

I agree they broke the yolk, and it was needed.

But what you're missing is one of the biggest proponents and investors of driverless transport services is Uber & their holders. They'll replace every family trying to get additional income with a driverless car ASAP. And even though the yolk needed to break, you have to recall that Taxi drivers whom are losing their jobs have families too; and it's not their second job. Few are Uber drivers as their only job because they requirement for your car to be relatively new, which prevents a lot of people from participating, and it doesn't really pay enough to afford the cars required. It's the new mafia, you might say.

It's not like I expect nothing to evolve and change, the opposite really, but I hate when it's so negative.
 

amirm

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I agree they broke the yolk, and it was needed.

But what you're missing is one of the biggest proponents and investors of driverless transport services is Uber & their holders. They'll replace every family trying to get additional income with a driverless car ASAP. And even though the yolk needed to break, you have to recall that Taxi drivers whom are losing their jobs have families too; and it's not their second job. Few are Uber drivers as their only job because they requirement for your car to be relatively new, which prevents a lot of people from participating, and it doesn't really pay enough to afford the cars required. It's the new mafia, you might say.

It's not like I expect nothing to evolve and change, the opposite really, but I hate when it's so negative.
Do you feel sorry for Nokia workers that lost their jobs because of Apple and its iPhone?
 

Folsom

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Yes, I'll always feel sorry for someone that lost a job at no fault of their own. But in the tech industry it's to be expected and it's very different from the Uber example. First Nokia paid lots of severance for the workers in Finland, and in that field things change fairly fast without robots replacing their new jobs. Manufacturing loss was less than zero, as in the industry there's more jobs within making cellphones than ever since there's more phones than ever (and it was fairly automated to start). Where as Uber is going to erase an industry of jobs if they can, once it has been gutted. No Uber driver will get severance, obviously. Right now they're displacing livable jobs. But you may find it as a surprise that I actually blame traditional Taxi companies for letting Uber ruin them. If they had brains at all they would have immediately made an APP while Uber was still trying to get VC fudning.

I don't have to like it, despite how obvious and logical the steps have been, given the negligence of Taxi companies and demands of people. Although it sure would be nice to see Uber forced to act like a mature company, which may include safety checks and things they're avoiding so they can play hooky long enough to afford driverless cars in mass.
 
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