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Thread: CES is Dead, long live CES

  1. #21
    WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)/Member Sponsor [Technical Expert] garylkoh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metaphacts View Post
    16 years yields an interesting, short term perspective. Started attending CES in 1976.

    Actually it was the Venetian that resuscitated a dead CES. The AP was inefficient, out of the way, and sounded like ass. Had CEA not come up with a replacement for the AP, CES would have died years ago. Again this show is about the industry, not the end user.
    I agree with this - as a US manufacturer who sells worldwide, CES is important, and now more convenient and comfortable that audiophiles do not sneak into the show. It is all about spending time with our dealers and distributors. My French distributor turned up (after skipping the last 10 years) and that allowed us to catch up for an hour talking about product directions and sales and marketing plan for the next couple of years. That's invaluable.

    The decline of CES is dues to the decline of the US dealer base. They don't come to CES anymore, or not enough of them exist any more. Hence, distributors and importers no longer have an incentive to be at the show.

    If you look at CES from the perspective of an audiophile getting your jollys, you should be disappointed. I totally agree with metaphacts. I am more concerned with the decline of the US hifi industry.
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  2. #22
    [Industry Expert] Senior Member metaphacts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffrey_t View Post
    An interesting short term perspective, nice try. 16 years is long enough to see the total decline of the show.

    "Again this show is about the industry, not the end user." That's similar to what us UCLA fans say when our football team sucks: "well we're a basketball school anyway."
    Wait, what? UCLA was ever a football school? Who knew? As for basketball school, if I had a 16 year perspective I would know UCLA basketball as a speed bump on the way to back to back Gator NCAA titles. A longer view of UCLA basketball would be quite different.

    CES is not and never has been an end user show. From the CES website: "CES is a global consumer electronics and consumer technology tradeshow that takes place every January in Las Vegas, Nevada." Emphasis is mine.

    16 years is enough to actually see the up of the Venetian's early days and the very down now. CES effectiveness has always been a sine wave for Specialty Audio going all the way back to when the show first began 50 years ago. When it reaches bottom, the organization now known as CTA steps in to change it before it dies off. We'll see what, if anything, they do this time. They follow the money and since Specialty Audio is a lower and lower draw for them, it's hard to see them making any moves in our favor.

    ymmv
    Wilson Audio

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffrey_t View Post
    I've been going for 16 years. It used to take us 2 full days to visit CES at Alexis Park, it took 3 hours this visit all the rooms this year.
    Three hours? I spent two full days from opening hour to closing and then some to cover 90% of what was there. If I had not wanted to go and cover the main show floor, I would have spent another half a day to full day there. I took nearly 700 pictures which I documented in 85 threads. Discovered bunch of new music and enjoyed listening to many. Built new friendships and industry connections.

    I think the real decline started with the move to the Venetian and when they clamped down on selling records.

    Very sad.
    Alexis Park was a dumpy hotel and CES high-end show at the Venetian has been highly thriving post the move from AP. Just look at my coverage of CES in this forum from years past -- all at Venetian.

    Same kind of sad song was played for Rocky Mountain here. I almost didn't go because of that. Good thing I ignored that and attened. It was a highly successful show for me.

  4. #24
    Site Founder And Administrator Steve Williams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amirm View Post
    Three hours? I spent two full days from opening hour to closing and then some to cover 90% of what was there. If I had not wanted to go and cover the main show floor, I would have spent another half a day to full day there. I took nearly 700 pictures which I documented in 85 threads. Discovered bunch of new music and enjoyed listening to many. Built new friendships and industry connections.


    Alexis Park was a dumpy hotel and CES high-end show at the Venetian has been highly thriving post the move from AP. Just look at my coverage of CES in this forum from years past -- all at Venetian.

    Same kind of sad song was played for Rocky Mountain here. I almost didn't go because of that. Good thing I ignored that and attened. It was a highly successful show for me.

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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by metaphacts View Post
    Wait, what? UCLA was ever a football school? Who knew? As for basketball school, if I had a 16 year perspective I would know UCLA basketball as a speed bump on the way to back to back Gator NCAA titles. A longer view of UCLA basketball would be quite different.

    CES is not and never has been an end user show. From the CES website: "CES is a global consumer electronics and consumer technology tradeshow that takes place every January in Las Vegas, Nevada." Emphasis is mine.

    16 years is enough to actually see the up of the Venetian's early days and the very down now. CES effectiveness has always been a sine wave for Specialty Audio going all the way back to when the show first began 50 years ago. When it reaches bottom, the organization now known as CTA steps in to change it before it dies off. We'll see what, if anything, they do this time. They follow the money and since Specialty Audio is a lower and lower draw for them, it's hard to see them making any moves in our favor.

    ymmv
    Correct. You have to prove your industry affiliation to gain admission, but there are those consumers that print fake business cards to gain admission.

    CEA is not supporting the show in a way that will ever make this show regain its former luster. For crying out loud they are selling the unused rooms to mattress companies from what I am seeing??

    All things considered, if this was on the same terms as other shows it might still be valid, but they charge close to double that what any other show costs to boot. For what?

    Even though this is marketed as an "International trade show" you can just as well invite potential dealers and distributors to any other venue of your choosing Audio show or no Audio show.

    I think another year and then it will be changed to a different industry demographic altogether
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  6. #26
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    It was indeed a sad sight this year... I've skipped last year (2016), but 2015 wasn't already exactly "hot" in terms of attendance... This year was pitiful...

    What's cruel is that those rooms are probably some of the best-sounding ones of all the venues used in the US! They're really not bad at all, and most rooms I've been to had decent to great sound.

    I agree with Gary (and others) that the problem goes much beyond venue, etc. It's more of an issue with the state of the US audio industry and its lack of organization.

    My suggestion: instead of CES, have trade days during the regular audio shows, twice a year, one in each coast. So, the RMAF and LA shows, one in each coast, one in each part of the year.



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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by metaphacts View Post
    Wait, what? UCLA was ever a football school? Who knew? As for basketball school, if I had a 16 year perspective I would know UCLA basketball as a speed bump on the way to back to back Gator NCAA titles. A longer view of UCLA basketball would be quite different.

    CES is not and never has been an end user show. From the CES website: "CES is a global consumer electronics and consumer technology tradeshow that takes place every January in Las Vegas, Nevada." Emphasis is mine.

    16 years is enough to actually see the up of the Venetian's early days and the very down now. CES effectiveness has always been a sine wave for Specialty Audio going all the way back to when the show first began 50 years ago. When it reaches bottom, the organization now known as CTA steps in to change it before it dies off. We'll see what, if anything, they do this time. They follow the money and since Specialty Audio is a lower and lower draw for them, it's hard to see them making any moves in our favor.

    ymmv
    Your endless assault of rude and condescending comments confirms the rumors of who's "brilliant" idea it was to move the show to the Venetian.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by asiufy View Post
    It was indeed a sad sight this year... I've skipped last year (2016), but 2015 wasn't already exactly "hot" in terms of attendance... This year was pitiful...

    What's cruel is that those rooms are probably some of the best-sounding ones of all the venues used in the US! They're really not bad at all, and most rooms I've been to had decent to great sound.

    I agree with Gary (and others) that the problem goes much beyond venue, etc. It's more of an issue with the state of the US audio industry and its lack of organization.

    My suggestion: instead of CES, have trade days during the regular audio shows, twice a year, one in each coast. So, the RMAF and LA shows, one in each coast, one in each part of the year.



    cheers,
    alex
    Now that is an excellent idea Alex.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by asiufy View Post
    It was indeed a sad sight this year... I've skipped last year (2016), but 2015 wasn't already exactly "hot" in terms of attendance... This year was pitiful...

    What's cruel is that those rooms are probably some of the best-sounding ones of all the venues used in the US! They're really not bad at all, and most rooms I've been to had decent to great sound.

    I agree with Gary (and others) that the problem goes much beyond venue, etc. It's more of an issue with the state of the US audio industry and its lack of organization.

    My suggestion: instead of CES, have trade days during the regular audio shows, twice a year, one in each coast. So, the RMAF and LA shows, one in each coast, one in each part of the year.



    cheers,
    alex
    +1. Very good idea
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    Primary Control
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  10. #30
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    Spoke with Richard / Shunyata Research about this very topic yesterday. He attended this years show.

    He agrees. Interestingly, he cites the overall costs for a manufacturer to attend / display at CES (labor unions, hotels, airline tickets, taxi fares, etc.) as additional reasons for falling attendance.

    And of course, there's Munich.

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