You said it more eloquently than I could.Amir this looks like a pile of Schiit.
That would be great. Just send me a PM.I will ship you my Gungnir Multibit to test if it comes back as it left.
You said it more eloquently than I could.Amir this looks like a pile of Schiit.
That would be great. Just send me a PM.I will ship you my Gungnir Multibit to test if it comes back as it left.
I will do a subjective review in the future after I do a teardown and finish testing of other DACs in that price range.Amir, a question....did you actually listen to the Modi 2 DAC or did you only put it on your scope?
If you did listen, what ancillary gear did you listen to it with? Photos of the set-up would be great.
Amir this looks like a pile of Schiit.
I will ship you my Gungnir Multibit to test if it comes back as it left.
There is no comparable measurement in JA's stereophile review to mine. I tested coax S/PDIF input. He tested Toslink. My measurements show that there is strong coupling between PC activity and DAC output. That coupling gets broken using an optical link like Toslink. It goes right through using the coax input I used.
I have owned a Gumby and currently own an Yggy. Two great products. I have heard a Bifrost as well. Let's just say I find these measurements to be "interesting". I don't think Mike Moffat is a hack as these measurements would seem to indicate. So....
How did you test coax SPDIF input from your PC to Bifrost DAC? So what USB to SPDIF converter did you use and why would your son insert a USB/SPDIF converter when he can connect the Bifrost directly via USB to his PC?There is no comparable measurement in JA's stereophile review to mine. I tested coax S/PDIF input. He tested Toslink. My measurements show that there is strong coupling between PC activity and DAC output. That coupling gets broken using an optical link like Toslink. It goes right through using the coax input I used.
Your due process is pretty lax when it comes to slating a manufacturer's device. You did your test in 2016 on a new Bifrost & Stereophile did theirs in 2013 - so I surmise you were using the latest version!!Even using Toslink JA talks about strange behavior relative to USB (when he says "S/PDIF" he means Toslink -- see the graph notation):
"Both samples offered anomalous behavior when decoding the Miller and Dunn J-Test data via S/PDIF. Fig.13, for example, shows the spectrum of the first sample's output while it decoded 16-bit J-Test data. Not only is the primary pair of sidebands at ±229Hz accentuated, and some off-order harmonics of the low-frequency, LSB-level squarewave suppressed, but there is a peculiar rise in the noise floor to either side of the spectral spike that represents the 11.025kHz tone. By contrast, fed the same 16-bit data via USB (fig.14), the noise floor now lies at the correct level and the odd-order harmonics lie at almost the correct level, though the sidebands at ±229Hz are suppressed. The same behavior is evident with the second sample, with fig.15 the 16-bit S/PDIF spectrum and fig.16 the 16-bit USB spectrum.
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/schiit-audio-bifrost-da-processor-measurements#GFecbS8g5iaECGd1.99"
In addition, note the section on testing two different samples. It seems the Schiit changes design of the DAC without changing model name/numbers.
"Then I heard that some changes in the Bifrost were on the way. I put aside that first review sample (with Gen 1 USB board and no Uber Analog option, as the latter hadn't yet been released), filed my notes away, and thought, Yeah, let's see how you look in your spiffy new coat and tie. It took several months for the upgrades to materialize;
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/schiit-audio-bifrost-da-processor-page-2#Q0cI6GBxS4ceCekJ.99"
Who knows which version my son bought, and which version he measured.
You mean through a USB/SPDIF converter & then to the Bifrost as that's what you tested.I also discovered the system noise dependency because my Son could clearly hear the computer activity through Bifrost DAC.
I doubt a -45dB spur would not go unnoticed in his measurements & his conclusion "Overall, both samples of the Bifrost measured well, especially given the affordable price. And the second sample's Uber Analog board offers lower distortion and a usefully lower output impedance at low frequencies, justifying the cost of the upgrade" attests to the Bifrost not having the problems you claim it has.That bleeding will be system activity dependent. I don't see JA finding and testing for that since he was not armed as I was trying to find that correlation.
Eh just you are measuring -45dB spurs, not JA at Stereophile. I believe that you might question your measurements before such rash pronouncements about what manufacturers do or don't do - your measurements show distortions not seen in any other Bifrost measurements so should they be reacting to Amir's flawed measurements then?Finally, it is not my job to go and rationalize anything. Manufacturer needs to run these tests if not for anything other than making sure products are manufactured correctly. I seem to recall Moffett saying they couldn't afford to buy an Audio Precision analyzer. Well, they need to save up and get one. Then, they can try to repeat what JA and I are measuring.
Perhaps your measurement setup has a problem as again your measurements do not show any resemblance to others http://superbestaudiofriends.org/in...p-comb-units-grace-schiit-ifi-lh-jds-etc.427/Now, if that was just a fluke, it would be one thing. But the much newer Modi 2 is also showing system noise dependency. These are multiple runs/measurements with nothing in the DAC+measurement changed:
You won't get twice the same output out of this DAC, playing the same file. This is not acceptable performance in this day and age. You buy an aftermarket DAC to get away from system dependency on the built-in DAC. To be plagued by the same thing in two different units just shows lack of engineering attention. See how iFi is squeaky clean.
No setup problems. Just different tests. His tests are at 1Khz and 60 Hz for his single tones:Perhaps your measurement setup has a problem as again your measurements do not show any resemblance to others http://superbestaudiofriends.org/ind...h-jds-etc.427/
You haven't shown me "other measurements" that disagree with mine. You were confused thinking JA had tested the same input but he had not. He uses an isolated optical input, I used coax.Eh just you are measuring -45dB spurs, not JA at Stereophile. I believe that you might question your measurements before such rash pronouncements about what manufacturers do or don't do - your measurements show distortions not seen in any other Bifrost measurements so should they be reacting to Amir's flawed measurements then?
Oh I get it. After spending $400 on a DAC, I am supposed to go and look for a S/PDIF interface that makes the DAC happy??? You don't think that kind of money is spent so that the DAC is insensitive to what is going on with S/PDIF interface?How did you test coax SPDIF input from your PC to Bifrost DAC? So what USB to SPDIF converter did you use and why would your son insert a USB/SPDIF converter when he can connect the Bifrost directly via USB to his PC?
So again you demonstrate that you are not testing the Bifrost but a combination of Bifrost + an undisclosed USB/SPDIF converter - producing measurements which show spurs -45dB down @ 2KHz & 20KHz & blaming it all on the Bifrost
FYI, I just finished testing of their Modi 2 DAC ($99) and once again it is a disappointment: http://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/budget-dac-review-schiit-modi-2-99.1649/
You are joking, aren't you? You may fool some people with your semi-technical info but you are again just waffling.No setup problems. Just different tests. His tests are at 1Khz and 60 Hz for his single tones:
1 Khz is next to useless for finding jitter problems because jitter directly scales with slew rate of the signal. This is why industry standard j-test uses FS/4 or 11.05 Khz for 44.1 Khz sampling and 12 Khz for 48 Khz as I used.
Again -45dB down is gross distortion - you don't need any 'special' test equipment to find it. Look at your test setup to find your problem, Amir - it's been told to you before but you continue to ignore it & produce laughable measurements different to anybody else.And remember again, that my data shows Modi 2 to have high sensitivity to system noise. So no two measurements will agree unless the source computers are identical which they are not. This is a design flaw in a high-fidelity DAC which creates consequences in measurements performed by multiple people as well.
Both JA and I use the same standardized test in that regard using similar measurement equipment. What someone online is doing otherwise is not again, my issue to deal with.
So you're admitting that the SPDIF interface may be the cause of the issue & you have made no mention of this before - blaming all ills on the Bifriost. Pretty objective testing, NOT.Oh I get it. After spending $400 on a DAC, I am supposed to go and look for a S/PDIF interface that makes the DAC happy??? You don't think that kind of money is spent so that the DAC is insensitive to what is going on with S/PDIF interface?
My question to you is - why did he did he not use the Bifrost's USB input to connect to his PC, instead he chose to connect the Bifrost to a USB to SPDIF converter & then via SPDIF to the Bifrost? Extra expense, extra cabling, extra hassle - any explanation for the $1,000 spend when he coul dhav ejust used the Bifrost direct at what $400 - he has more than doubled his costsYou have to be kidding me. Remember, my son could hear his own computer activity bleeding into the output of their DAC+headphone amp. I think he spent near $1000 on all that. And you are sitting here with a straight face saying that is justified?
Wow another DAC with problems, eh Amir?BTW, he went and bought an Oppo DAC and these issues disappeared (although he has good enough hearing to detect that their channel balance changes with volume).
Calm down John. His computer had coax S/PDIF output already. So there was no outside USB to S/PDIF converter. Or extra cost.So you're admitting that the SPDIF interface may be the cause of the issue & you have made no mention of this before - blaming all ills on the Bifriost. Pretty objective testing, NOT.
You still haven't revealed the full identity of the devices under test - what USB/SPDIF converter did you use?
You have habit of doing this - changing more than one parameter (in this case using a DAC & unidentified SPDIF converter), & then claiming the measurements are all due to the DAC. Again, not knowing scientific measurements procedures, it's not really surprising
My question to you is - why did he did he not use the Bifrost's USB input to connect to his PC, instead he chose to connect the Bifrost to a USB to SPDIF converter & then via SPDIF to the Bifrost? Extra expense, extra cabling, extra hassle - any explanation for the $1,000 spend when he coul dhav ejust used the Bifrost direct at what $400 - he has more than doubled his costs
I said my son has good hearing. I skipped another Dac he bought in between: a Peachtree. This is a $1000 DAC. He comes to me and says there is a problem with it. He plays an MP3 file on it and crackles on the peaks. It didn't on my system or his motherboard analog out. I look at the file and it is a hair below clipping as much pop music is these days. The resampler in Peachtree had created an overflow causing the clipping.Wow another DAC with problems, eh Amir?
Amir this looks like a pile of Schiit.
I will ship you my Gungnir Multibit to test if it comes back as it left.
I rescind my offer.
No problem. Thanks for the initial offer anyway.I rescind my offer.
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