Attitude towards and costs of the hobby

I respect the fact that you track your money carefully! I also track it. I know exactly how much i have spent on all audio equipment since my first boombox in 10th grade (that one cost $83).

As for the longevity of your choices, you have me beat. Since 1993, I have had 4 proper systems...each one being 'fully evolved' before I decided to embark on upgrading it all to the 'next level' which I aspired to. In the vast majority of the cases, i have bought 2nd hand and so it has typically taken several years to complete the migration from the prior system to the new one...picking up each component one at a time in the 2nd hand/demo market. The current system began the changeover in 2008.

Since i always traded in my older systems towards the acquisition of the next system, it is a bit easier to track the costs. Today, we are sitting at a cost basis of 37 cents on the retail dollar. I have never found myself with a poor choice and a quick flip...the closest i came was a unit that required more repairs than i had anticipated but was still remarkably good...and i did trade that one in for a profit so hard to complain!

In the end, i enjoy the music, but i admit i also enjoy the system itself and how well it reproduces the music. When that bass wallop comes, i enjoy the bass note...but i also enjoy that the system is doing the wallop!

As an aside: The MOV's used in many power conditioners for transient voltage (surge) protection have finite lifetime; they will only absorb so many "hits" and their clamp voltage gradually increases. If your old power conditioner uses them for surge suppression, you might want to replace them just to be sure.

Good to know. I recall i had read that somewhere many years ago, but have forgotten. Thanks for the reminder.

LL21 said:

Good to know. I recall i had read that somewhere many years ago, but have forgotten. Thanks for the reminder.

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Living in a London urban zone, where power lines are buried, I would not be worried. Some years ago I researched this subject, as we had surge problems in the laboratory power mains, and found that unless you live in a zone of frequent lightning and have exposed power lines close by, you should not be worried about it. I do not have now with me the literature I consulted on the subject but just look at this one https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=23&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiM9dvq_LLRAhWq54MKHeK0AMU4FBAWCCcwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fra.panamax.com%2Fpdf%2Fmov.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFmdWHnmN4XNwYLQFpKDFsvI4PbVA&bvm=bv.142059868,d.amc.

I am not an expert in spike protection, but manufacturers of ultra-expensive equipment told me that I should not be worried about good quality MOV lifetime. As usual, people have to consider their particular case. We can find many IEEE papers on this subject!

Im always chasing a better eargasm than the last best one..

I've really had three systems in my 22 years I've been seriously in the hobby. my first was Wilson (WP 3/2's, 5.1's, and 6.0's) Mark Levinson (various ending with the 33 monos and 32 pre), Linn CD-12 and VPI TNT and Basis 2500.......from 1994-2001. my second was Kharma Exquisites/Tenor OTL's/Placette passive pre/Rockport Sirius III, Emm Labs digital from 2001-2005. my third and final system (2005-2017) did start out with VR9SE speakers for the 1st year, 2005, but then moved to the Evolution Acoustics early 2006, it had darTZeel pre and amps, continued with the Rockport, Playback Designs digital, added Studer and Ampex master recorders. during this last system i did add 4 more turntables, multiple arms and cartridges, and then eventually end up with only the Wave Kinetics NVS and Durand Telos tonearms. i also at one point had 5 RTR decks but now only the 2 Studers.

as far as budget, maybe I've been very lucky......but except for the Wilson and Mark Levinson gear, I've always got at least my investment out of my speakers and electronics as i upgraded, mostly making a little profit after my use......and a few times considerable profit. so........my total investment, while considerable, has been spread out over 22 years. mostly I've purchased products at the start of their design life and chosen wisely as far as gear with market acceptance and value retention. and I've used much of my gear for long periods. i had Evolution MM3's for 7 years, my Rockport for 8 years, my dart 108 amps for 7 years, my first dart pre for 9 years, my Playback Designs for 9 years. and all those products I've sold continue to be strong in the market now years after I've sold them. so it's choosing wisely that is the key to not churning money as you upgrade.

so overall i feel that my money has not been wasted.....or lost in the gear turnover cycle.

it's also no coincidence that I've not bought 'brick and mortar' marketed products (built in upgrade obsolescence) since Wilson/Mark Levinson if you are looking for my secret.

of course; my investment in building my room was considerable. but looking at property values in my community, and what 1800 sq. ft. of finished space adds to a property, it has been a good investment in value if i just look at the present value.

maybe i might have retired a few years ago had a not pursued such a high level of audio passion.....but no regrets. my daily ROI in enjoyment is worth it to me and how i feel.

As mike says , If you buy wisely you only loan money to the system , you or your heirs get back most or all your spend..chalk up "losses" to the cost of entertainment.

It has costed me quit a lot of money sofar , but hobbies cost anyway .
I find it fascinating how a a sound wave can be converted to electricity -stored/amplified and be reproduced again .
For example I have a DVD box of michael palin where he travels over the world to the sahara for example , trying to hear every whisper of a tree or sand thats being moved while a camel walks is fun to get hear reproduced ,or trying to have a voice being reproduced as natural as possible.
Its a interest of mine i watch a lot of docs on dvd as well , makes it so much more fun if you get it authentic sounding
These days its gotten to such a level of equipment that i dont see much improvement buy buying other gear or new speakerdesign ( special room excluded ) so it doesnt cost anymore really.
I now also have heard the tape sound , so finally you get an idea whats possible after all those years .
In the beginning it costed quit a bit more in speaker development and components , as you go to a dealer and you think that sounds so much better , but its reversed now finally .
Speakerbuilding has just been a costly long road of getting rid off distortion, but if i had to buy a speaker that sounds on this level i had to spend a lot as well , and i dont know if i would be still satisfied after 3 months and would have wanted to change something

This hobby costs a lot in travel though

Rodney Gold said:

As mike says , If you buy wisely you only loan money to the system , you or your heirs get back most or all your spend..chalk up "losses" to the cost of entertainment.

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If you get industry accommodation pricing or even better, of course you can come out ahead in the game (present company included!)

I'm a mere mortal .. I have to beg , wheedle , grovel , promise my firstborn , blackmail to get any consideration

Al M. said:

I guess to each their own version of the hobby: some seem to enjoy to go through gear just for the fun of change, or because they are always interested in the latest versions of their favorite kinds of gear. Or they simply enjoy for its own sake the process of upgrading gear. I don't enjoy any of these things the way others do. I just want music reproduction that is exciting and involving to me. Some also chase for all kinds of new things because they don't have clear ideas about their personal preferences in music reproduction.

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I agree with your assessment of how others view the hobby. I enjoy it for the same reasons you do. I have found a few components that work well together that really make listening to music enjoyable for me. I do like to tinker/modify some of these for the fun of it and to make them sound better. I keep stuff for a fairly long time, but not so long as you do perhaps. At this stage, I'm nearing the end of upgrades and more inclined to keep things no more complicated than they already are!

As to cost, I don't really keep track. I will buy used or demo equipment. I could spend more than I do, but I've spent a fair amount, and don't really need to spend more to get great sound that's enjoyable. While I've been an audio nut for 45 year, there are many other important things in my life and it's worth keeping them all in perspective.

Bruce B said:

If you get industry accommodation pricing or even better, of course you can come out ahead in the game (present company included!)

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You bring up an interesting point. Inquiring minds wonder how much of a factor this is?

microstrip said:

Living in a London urban zone, where power lines are buried, I would not be worried. Some years ago I researched this subject, as we had surge problems in the laboratory power mains, and found that unless you live in a zone of frequent lightning and have exposed power lines close by, you should not be worried about it. I do not have now with me the literature I consulted on the subject but just look at this one https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=23&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiM9dvq_LLRAhWq54MKHeK0AMU4FBAWCCcwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fra.panamax.com%2Fpdf%2Fmov.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFmdWHnmN4XNwYLQFpKDFsvI4PbVA&bvm=bv.142059868,d.amc.

I am not an expert in spike protection, but manufacturers of ultra-expensive equipment told me that I should not be worried about good quality MOV lifetime. As usual, people have to consider their particular case. We can find many IEEE papers on this subject!

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Thanks for that!!! Good to know.

I find the industry rush to higher and higher price points to be disconcerting. I am not much of a tinker man. I have found good quality stuff that performs well and is well built and lasts and stick with it. The only exception to this is digital playback which is improving by leaps and bounds in short periods of time. In listening to many home systems, I find the rooms to be much more problematic than the equipment. Perhaps if more attention is given to the room/speaker interaction, there may be less of an interest in swapping out boxes so often. I am lucky and don't need to have my rig in a public space in the house so I can do what I want in regards to the room with no significant pushback from my wife.

Our neighborhood lines are buried but feeders from the road a mile or so away are overhead and lightning is an issue. However, at least in my case, I found most spikes were caused by HVAC, fridge, and other motors cycling within the house (our treadmill is a big offender), spikes from high-wattage light fixtures being turned on and off, and so forth, more often than spikes on the incoming lines (aside from thunderstorms, natch).

The escalating prices caught me off-guard several years ago when we finished the basement, with a media room, and I looked to update my system. A $10k USD system is only middling these days, no wonder so many have turned away from "hi-fi". I spoke with a new hire fairly recently who wanted to get a nice system but after reading some magazines felt he'd never be close to "good sound". I pointed out that a very good sounding system for $2k or so (his budget) would still blow away his MP3 player... The very high end is now for millionaires and far out of reach for most of us. I cannot imagine assembling something like my last system (ARC SP3a1, D79, IRS 2 or Magnepans, AR or Thorens TT with Grace or Magnepan arm and various cartridges). SOTA back then, no way I could touch any system with claims to SOTA now. Fortunately, there is still stuff that sounds good to me even if not up to WBF standards.

DaveyF said:

You bring up an interesting point. Inquiring minds wonder how much of a factor this is?

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40 to 50 percent

RogerD said:

40 to 50 percent

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I've gotten a lot more than that and I know others have as well.